Posted on 07/23/2005 5:58:17 PM PDT by T-Bird45
Sixty years later, the debate still rages. Was America right to drop the atomic bomb - both bombs? Did it truly face the prospect of a full-scale invasion of Japan which some estimated would result in a million casualties? Or was Japan's imperial army, despite its astonishing savagery and unwillingness to surrender, on the brink of capitulation? Can the mass slaughter and irradiation of civilians without warning ever have been justified?
The man who built the A-bombs, scientist Robert Oppenheimer, and the man who used them, President Harry Truman, are both long dead. But the men who were physically close to one of the pivotal moments of the 20th century still live with the consequences.
General Paul Tibbets, who commanded the Enola Gay, the B-29 Superfortress he named after his mother, is now 90 and living in Columbus, Ohio. The Enola Gay's mission over Hiroshima was so secret that Tibbets was given cyanide pills, one for each of the crew, so they could commit suicide if they fell into Japanese hands.
Many of the Japanese children who felt the wrath of the bomb, Little Boy, when it exploded are still alive, too. As might be expected, nearly all of them condemn the use of the A-bomb as unethical. Yet many acknowledge that in 1945 they were ready to fight to the death with bamboo spears, and dreamt of joining Japan's military machine, perhaps as Zero fighter pilots, kamikaze suicide bombers. Whether they would have done the same as Tibbets in his position is a question some cannot, or will not, answer.
The issue will be hard to duck on 6 August when Keijiro Matsushima, 76, a survivor of the Hiroshima bomb, visits Tinian Island, the US base in the Pacific, to commemorate the Enola Gay's flight 60 years before. He is expected to come face to face with US veterans who crewed the warplane that day, though Tibbets himself cannot go due to ill health. Mr Matsushima, a fluent English speaker and frequent visitor to America, was at school in Hiroshima on 6 August 1945: 'I remember thinking, "Did they drop thousands and thousands of fire bombs in a moment?" People's hair was sticking up, or they had lost their hair. Their whole bodies had been smoked to almost charcoal and their clothes were singed or torn. Their skin was peeling off and you could see red muscle.
'Without exception they stretched their arms out in front of them and were walking very slowly, marching like ghosts. I saw many 12- and 13-year-old boys and girls heavily burnt among those victims. When I think of these boys and girls, I can't stop the tears.'
And yet Mr Matsushima, whose brother, Kanngo, was a Zero fighter pilot, said he too had craved the fight against America. 'All Japanese boys wanted to join the military in those days. When I walked out of the city I could see both sides of the river burning phosphorus. Big smoke had covered the whole city, rising up, and I thought, "Hey, the Americans invented a real tough weapon. It's very hard to win this war." At the same time I never believed in surrender either. We were ready for suicide attacks.'
Would he have dropped the A-bomb? 'I tell American people I don't think we can blame you. This was during the war, when people become mad to kill the enemy. If Japan had an A-bomb we might have dropped it into New York. Do we have to thank them for dropping the A-bomb on Hiroshima? I don't think so. I can't say that.'
Pressed on whether he would have done as Tibbets did, Mr Matsushima raised his hands and said: 'This time I will reject that. I know that some of the pilots of the Enola Gay say, "If I was told to carry the A-bomb again I would do it, because that was our job." But I don't think I can welcome this opinion.
'Sixty years ago maybe the pilots of the Enola Gay had to do that because it was their duty but, after all, they killed men and women, young and old, and even children and babies.
'If I see them on Tinian Island, what shall I tell them? "I understand you did your job during the war so I don't blame you. But I just hope you will be able to mourn the victims of Hiroshima and have a drop of tear for the victims. Please co-operate to stop the third use of it in this world".'
As a result of the A-bomb, Akihiro Takahashi, who turns 74 this week, has no ears, suffers chronic liver disease and cannot fully raise his right arm with its claw-like hand, and his body still has shards of window pane embedded.
A couple of years ago he met Paul Tibbets in Washington. 'I told him "I'm not going to complain or hold a grudge against you." I pushed my right hand towards him and he noticed the burns on my hand. He asked, "Is this the effect of the A-bomb?" I said, "Yes". He looked surprised and shocked.
'I told him the sky over Hiroshima that day was so beautiful, so clear. We felt safe because the alarm was called off at the time. I told him I was even pointing at your airplane. He said, "Oh yes, I could see Hiroshima very well."
'Before departing, I told him, "We believe as citizens of Hiroshima that nuclear weapons are an absolute evil, and this tragedy should not be repeated in any country in the world. I hope you will try whatever you can do." He responded, "Mr Takahashi, I understand, but I know I would do the same thing once a war has started and I am ordered to drop the A-bomb." I felt angry and also sad. But he also told me war shouldn't happen again because, once a war breaks out, soldiers can do nothing but follow orders.
'The conversation lasted half an hour and he kept holding my right hand. I believe he felt some pain and remorse in his heart. But when I told a friend, he said, "I doubt it".'
Tibbets was unavailable for comment, but in a 2002 interview he insisted that he had no regrets: 'You're gonna kill innocent people at the same time, but we've never fought a damn war anywhere in the world where they didn't kill innocent people. If the newspapers would just cut out the shit: "You've killed so many civilians." That's their tough luck for being there.'
An associate of Tibbets, Ed Humphreys, of the Enola Gay Remembered website, replied to a written request from The Observer: 'The general recently met a Japanese aviator who was scheduled to fly a kamikaze mission on 17 August. He is planning to translate [Tibbets's memoir] Return of The Enola Gay into Japanese for sale in Japan so they can know more about the truth and wisdom of using the bomb to stop the killing.'
Humphreys added: 'The US picked Hiroshima and Nagasaki because those cities contained over 100 viable military targets. I am not minimising the suffering of the Japanese people. However, if roles were reversed do you think the Japanese would have used the bomb on the United States?
'The general has told me on several occasions he was not at war with the Japanese people, he was at war with the samurai. They were far more ruthless than the terrorists we battle today.
'I thank God our brave solders like General Tibbets rose to the occasion to bring an end to the killing.'
This is an attack that is rarely discussed, at least in comparison to the debate and controversy the bombings of Dresden and Hamburg engendered, even though the firebombing of Tokyo killed far more people in one night than both of those bombings combined, an estimated 80,000 to 100,000. The attack on Tokyo is also rarely discussed even in the context of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, even though more people died 60 years ago tonight in Tokyo than died as a result of the atomic bombing of Nagasaki. In 2005, as for several decades before, the firebombing of Tokyo, indeed, the entire bombing campaign against the Japanese mainland, remains obscure in comparison to the bombing campaigns against Germany. Few Americans are even aware that it occurred, or of the magnitude of the bombing, and most Japanese don't want to discuss it.
Just after midnight on the night of March 9-10, 1945, 334 heavy B-29 bombers began dropping 1,665 tons of incendiary bombs on Tokyo, where the vast majority of buildings were made of wood and easily flammable materials. By the time the bombing was complete, over 15 square kilometers of Tokyo were leveled, and over 1 million were left homeless. This was just the opening salvo in a bombing campaign that equalled or rivaled the campaign against Germany.
The details of Bataan made me cry.
These savages were also conducting "expirements" on live American prisoners with no anesthetic.
They stuffed our prisoners into the bow of ships headed for Japan and starved them among other cruelties.
They hated whites and other "non-Japanese".
IMO: No apologies or regrets. They started a war and, they got justice.--> "His will be done."
I wish that the Japanese spent more time mourning the millions of Chinese they killed during WW2.
I spend time mourning the innocent civilians the Japanese killed and the brave US soldiers who stopped.
I am glad I don't have to mourn the US servicemen who would have died if we hadn't dropped the bomb and had to invade the Japanese home islands. Imagine Okinawa X 1000. Not a pretty thought.
Interesting. What's the source document?
Oh really. The Germans were working on an A-bomb. We destroyed their heavy water plant at Vemork, Norway. If the Germans had been successful before us, do you think they would have used that weapon against the Allies? We killed approximately 8 million Germans, military and civilian, compared to about 2.1 million Japanese.
The paragraphs come from a thesis I wrote my senior year before I could graduate from Texas A&M. All history majors have to take a "seminar" class which includes a thesis style paper and mine was about the use of nuclear weapons in WWII. The items in bold are showing the sources I sued for those sections. Most of it comes from the official records of the Manhattan Project, which IIRC, is on around 60 rolls of microfilm.
Very good writing.
Just like Native Americans were so peaceful.
They were the first adversary to be feminized by revisionists, and I see how the lyiing lefties are doing the same to the Japanese.
Shameful.
The real answer to the question is : They didn't surrender till the second one.
You mean the "civilians" who vowed to fight to the death? Wishes fulfilled, I'd say.
The Japanese most certainly got justice, and justice is a cast iron bitch. The Pentagon has just in the last few years had to purchase Purple Heart medals. They used the ones stockpiled for Operation Olympic through Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, Granada, Panama, Desert Storm and all the other little low intensity conflicts for about fifty years. That's how many casualties were expected.
The soldiers who had fought, bled, and defeated the Germans, openly wept all throughout the ETO when they learned they hadn't survived the Nazis only to be butchered on some Japanese beach.
The Japanese have become good friends and allies of this country, but in this matter they can feel free to kiss my royal Irish arse.
Valen, review the casualty figures from Okinawa, especially the civilian casualties and the ships sunk and damaged by kamikaze attack. If you were Harry Truman and those figures came across your desk, would it be a warranted assumption on your part to believe that Japan was done? Would it not be a warranted assumption to believe they would fight for the home islands every bit as hard?
BTW, did you know the Olympic plan called for the use of 9 A-bombs as tactical weapons? In each invasion corps' beachhead area, they would have dropped one at the beachead, one a few miles back, and one would be used on any reinforcements coming into the battle area. There was even discussion of how to rig the bombs with a siren or flare to ensure the enemy troops would be looking at the bomb when it went off and be blinded. True, some of the opposition to dropping the bomb expressed in the quotes is based on their belief that Japan would surrender soon, but those who say "we bombed women and children"...how many women and children would have died in those tactical blasts? How many husbands and fathers would have been blinded for life?
Mitsuo Fuchida, who commanded the air winfg at Pearl Harbor, became a Christian and a peace activist after the war. He agreed with the decision to drop the bomb, belived that all the talk of imminent Japanese surrender was hogwash, and said that to have such a weapon in such a situation and to hold back would be to break faith with the people of one's nation. Paul Schratz noted in Submarine Commander that the only Japanese he found who disagreed with the decision were ones who survived the Hiroshima bombing. Others said that Japan would have done the same to us, or said that fewer lives were lost than would have been lost in continued conventional bombing.
I meant to say...
Very good writing. and it's interesting to read the reasoning...I had heard the rumblings about racism being the reason Germany wasn't strongly considered, and your data seems to contradict that to some extent.
Oh I wouldn't discount it completely. Remember the attitudes many had toward the Japanese at the time. First off they had attacked us, without a declaration of war, on December 7th 1941. That attack ensured that the war in the Pacific was going to be a war to the death.
Secondly, there was a strong attitude of racism toward the Japanese. In the newspaper cartoons of the day (even well before Dec. 7th) the Japanese were usually depicted as monkeys or worse. Remember we rounded up thousands of natural born Americans and put them into camps simply because they were Japanese. We didn't round up people of German or Italian ancestry although we did round up some Germans and Italians who had recently immigrated from those countries.
Now I do not believe racism was a major factor overall in deciding where to use the bomb but for some I do think some individuals they felt more comfortable using it against the Japanese then against Europeans.
I don't see what his own views have to do with it. The quotes are legitimate and this is a legitimate historical debate. The consensus historical view is gradually swinging around that the bombings weren't necessary - and will more so as time continues to march on. And I have become convinced as well. I am particularly impressed by the fact that the military leaders were skeptical of their use. We know it's not a good thing for politicians to make military judgments. Also note that the conservative position at the time was to oppose the bombings. It was not a conservative deed. Even beyond that, there is too much bloodthirsty glee demonstrated by some about the bombings.
The consensus of whom? A bunch of people who sip Starbucks and didn't live through the war?
A consensus today is meaningless, because it is based on imperfect data...the simple fact that most of those making it were not part of the "reality" of the day. The people who made the only consensus that matters had lived through too many years of war; they had lost too many sons, husbands and fathers. Nazi Germany was defeated and they knew, for the bloody experience of Okinawa, that hundreds of thousands Americans would die...and if you extend the lessons of Okinawa, millions of Japanese civilians would die.
Those making the consesus today haven't earned the right to second guess those who lived it.
I don't know how quickly the Japs would have gotten the A-bomb. Most of what I've read and believe states they were a long way from having one, although some here have posted otherwise. However they did have and plan to use WMD bombs on us, bubonic plague bombs. They'd tested them successfully in China. They had working delivery systems unknown to us, their giant aircraft carrier submarines. They had everything they needed in 1943, but inter-service squabbles between the Army (who had the bomb) and the Navy (who had the subs) kept them from being used. They finally had attacks scheduled (I've variously read on San Diego or on San Francisco) for about a month after OUR secret bombs ended the war. Had Truman not dropped our WMD, they'd have tried to drop theirs. Surprise would probably have let them pull it off. It's hard to guess how much trouble the plague bombs would have caused; potentially quite a bit. We probably could have limited it via quarantine and anti-rat measures better than the Chinese peasants on which it had been tested. The first antibiotic against plague, Streptomycin, wasn't isolated until late 1943 so I doubt it was available in useful quantities.
Like I said before, the military leaders were skeptical. And they lived through it. Their opinions will be analyzed by historians and will be a factor in the final analysis.
LOL! The final and only analysis that matters was made many years ago. Anything after that means nothing.
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