The Fighting Scots-Irish

Reason ^ | July 2005 | Charles Oliver

[Dan from Michigan]

Very interesting. A lot of my family's last names are on there, although most were "Green" Irish and not English or Scottish.

Three of my family names(Dad's side) are on there. Mulligan, Carey(NO RELATION TO JOHN KERRY), and Moore(Scottish or possibly Scots-Irish). Muilligan and Carey are traced to Ireland.

I haven't traced the Moores(one was a Grand Mason, and his son became Catholic) and have to get around to it while my Grandmother is still alive. I also found the Anglicized version of my own last name on there, and one of the 17+ versions of my own surname, although it's not my last name. If I'm related to any presidents, it's probably on that line, or my Dutch line, since I'm not related to the Kennedy's.

On my mom's side, Brady, Packard(Irish), Thompson(Irish), and McNamara are on the list. They are all Catholic Detroiters.

[neverdem]

And they play pipes in the Spanish province of Galicia.

My cousin traced our ancestry to washing up on the shores of northern Ireland after the disaster of the Spanish Armada. I guess some finally got back to Spain.

[Ros42]

Just a wee bit o Scott-Irish ping! ;~}

[Yardstick]

I think your comments are right on.

By the way, one of the best things I ran across in Liberty magazine was an article called The Mystery of Fascism, by a guy named Steele. You've probably seen it, but if not, I think you might find it interesting:

http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm

[Lady Jag]

If any Scot-Irish read this, Charles Oliver is dead.

[Dumb_Ox]

so known as Scotch-Irish, Ulster Scots, or Borderers, because they hailed from Northern Ireland and the border counties of Scotland and England

To my knowledge, "Scotch-Irish" specifically refers to those Scots who colonized Ireland after the invasion of Cromwell.

Ack, after reading the whole atrocious piece I'm reminded why Reason is a crappy magazine. Yeah, the book is probably a piece of ethnic pandering, but this article is just pandering's mirror image.

Anybody notice Thomas Sowell criticizing "black rednecks"? I'm wondering if this little debate reflects the old Yankee-Southern arguments; Sowell seems to hold the respectable Northern businessman to be better than the blue-collar Southerner. It's one big bash-fest between the yuppie city mice and the country mice yokels.

[Dumb_Ox]

There's no one more tribal than the elite of New York or Washington.

"David Brooks, Chief of the Bobos." Heh.

[eyespysomething]

Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America, by James Webb

[dixiechick2000]

"...the Puritans thought their women flirted too much, their men gambled too much, and all of them drank and fought too much."


Some of us have better manners than that, now. ;o)

The Scots-Irish in me thanks you for the ping.

[HonestConservative]

Buy this book! I read it a while ago for the first time and was enthralled by it.

Its a great read and something that you can pick up, re-read and get more and more out of it each time, with a fresh perspective with each read.

All in my house have read it since I picked it up. Four stars.

As a Scots-Irish descendant, I certainly appreciated this on a personal level and identified with the author's description of the culture.

[NavyCanDo]

More on Black Irish

I don't know my Grandfathers original hair color, all I remember that is the gray. He had light eyes, but his skin a darker than a normal Anglo, maybe the color you pick up after you been working on your tan all summer. My Father had green eyes, black hair, and the same dark complexion. All five of us kids have dark brown hair, a dark complexion but the eyes vary brown green or hazel. My little brother with his brown eyes actually looked Mexican, and I remember my Dad arguing with a Border guard at the Tijuana border that he was not sneaking a kid back to the states.
My Mother is German & Swede so the Black Irish traits seemed to have be dominate.

I did trace our "Glenn" family name all the way back to Scotland. In fact a Glenn married the illegitimate daughter of Robert the Bruce, and he later was given as a gift the sword of William Wallace, and his kin later brought that sword with them to Ireland - the first of my family tree in Ireland. Wonder if I can lay claim to that sword and just what could I get for it on E-bay? hehheheh

[Irish_Thatcherite]

Ping.

[aculeus]

This Irish-Irish American who now lives in Virginia surrounded by Scots-Irish read the book months ago and highly recommends it to all.

[junta]

I agree. I'll bet that this pantywaist has never been in a fight in his life, and his wrists are limp.

[KC_for_Freedom]

Madison had written a clause to protect the lands of native Americans

Madison also accepted the land Jackson took. The whole of westward expansion was a "taking from the indians". Anyone who wants to give their land back to the indians can with my blessing. (I don't intend to myself, and I am part indian.)

[SittinYonder]

But in so many other areas—from smoking bans to zoning laws to the licensing of carpenters, mechanics, plumbers, and other blue-collar professionals—Southern legislatures, city councils, and county commissioners nibble away each day at the liberties of their citizens.

Webb's intent was to note the substantial impact Scots-Irish have had on shaping America. He was dead-on right in his book. This column also holds some truths, such as the one above, but the smoking bans and zoning laws have largely been opposed by the Scots-Irish descendents. It's the carpetbaggers and university professors who push these things.

[yarddog]

I am reading a book my Daughter gave me titled "How the Scots Invented the Modern World" Although I have only read the first 60 or so pages, I noticed one thing which I had never heard before.

Many of the Scots who settled Norhern Ireland were in fact Highlanders from the Western Islands, not just lowlanders from the border regions. Of course these highlanders originally came from Ireland so the whole thing is pretty mixed up.

[Do not dub me shapka broham]

All of the Roosevelts were/are.

To the consternation of many-for the most part, extremely conservative-Dutch-Americans.

Vernon Ehlers is another anomaly, if you ask me.

[Coleus]

Happy Tartan Day! April 6, 2002

[Dan from Michigan]

The Michigan Dutch are for the most part Christian Reform or Dutch Reform Calvinists are are very conservative.

The Grand Rapids area isn't as conservative as Holland is though as Grand Rapids itself is slightly democrat(and almost 40% minority). Holland/Zeeland/Hudsonville is the Dutch Base - Ottawa County.