Posted on 07/22/2005 5:25:34 AM PDT by Saberwielder
Open For Admission
Amir Mir
The terrorist training camps are alive and kicking in Pakistan. In fact, they're hiring
When the July issue of Herald magazine hit the newstands in Pakistan, excitement and dismay swept among those who monitor the menace of terrorism in the country. The cover of the magazine had a headline screaming at the readers: 'Back to the Camp'; the accompanying cover strapline informed: 'Pakistani militants revive their training camps after a year-long break'. Interior minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao was quick to deny the story. New Delhi's response, however, was the opposite. Foreign minister K. Natwar Singh told an international news channel that his government possessed photographic evidence of training camps in Pakistan, and could furnish these to Islamabad on request.
Amidst these assertions and denials, Outlook talked to a clutch of militant leaders, their footsoldiers, and intelligence officials to find the following:
Abdul Ghafoor, a young LeT militant from Kotli in Pakistan-held Kashmir, confirms that hundreds of militants are undergoing advance-level training at dozens of camps in Bagh, Rawalkote, Kotli, Gulpur, Aliabad, Halanshumali, Padhar, Halan, Kaliar, Forwad Kahuta and Kacharban. He says around 200 militants are training at the Bagh training camp across Poonch, and between 100 and 125 at the Rawalkote camp.
These eyewitness accounts apart, senior intelligence sources provide a consolidated figure: Pakistan-administered Kashmir (or Pakistan-occupied Kashmir) hosts at least 36 training camps with approximately 3,600 militants; that a majority of these camps are located in Muzaffarabad and Kotli districts. They added that LeT maintains, among others, the Danna and Abdul-Bin-Masud camps in Muzaffarabad and the Badli camp in Kotli with almost 400, 300 and 350 jehadis respectively. The Hizbul operates the Jangal Mangal camp in Muzaffarabad and another at Mangla with at least 300 cadres each.
Interestingly, a substantial section of the recruits at the camps are trained militants who have been summoned for undertaking refresher courses. Kashmir apart, the Punjab province of Pakistan bordering India has emerged as the biggest catchment area for jehadis. Intelligence sources say more than 50 per cent of jehadis in Pakistan belong to Punjab; the Lashkar runs 18 recruitment centres, Jaish 11 and other outfits active in Kashmir, excluding Hizbul Mujahideen, 15 centres.
The leaders of militant groups are adamant on waging jehad. As former Lashkar chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, who now heads the Jamaatul Dawa, told Outlook, "We won't abandon jehad come what may. We waged jehad against the Soviet occupation forces in Afghanistan and America supported us with guns then. If these jehadis were not terrorists at that time, then why are they terrorists now?" For Saeed, Kashmir is a battlefield for jehad, a 57-year-old custody battle, an open-and-shut case with Pakistan in the right.
Almost all the major jehadi outfits have re-launched their campaigns to recruit volunteers. The most effective instrument of these groups to propagate jehadi culture are their publications (Ghazwa, Majalla, Zarb-e-Taiba, Shamsheer, Zarb-e-Momin etc) which together boast a circulation of millions and are distributed across Pakistan free of cost. These publications feature jehadi ballads, impressive interviews and profiles of young jehadis with big pictures, verses from the Quran, and letters from the readers to inspire the readers, particularly the youth.
In the months following 9/11, and under mounting pressure from Washington, LeT's Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, Jaish's Maulana Masood Azhar, HuM's Maulana Fazlur Rehman Khalil and HM's Syed Salahuddin were put under house arrest. Not only are these four leaders free now, none of them has been prosecuted for fomenting terrorism.
ping!
The Musharrif Goverment's positions are not necessarily those of the population of Pakistan. That's why Musharrif has dodged a few IEDs in the past year himself.
We scream for free elections in Pakistan, yet I fear if they actually hold them then they will vote in another Mullah based government like prewar Afghanistan and Iran.
We need to cut a deal with Musharrif in private that allows us to occasionally drop some GPS guided munitions onto these training camps and allow the Musharrif government to claim responsibility.
My guess is that if the Indians have pictures, they have GPS coordinates.
If this is REALLY a war, these locations need to be de-populated ASAP.
I don't think we need to "cut a deal" with Musharraf. We need to tell him that we are going to take down those "camps". Remember the 400 mile USMC air assault from the Indian Ocean into Bagram? That was likely a "dry run" for just this sort of action. An airlifted USMC battalion, supported by air dropped Rangers could do a quick job on the camps. Do we have the will to do so? That is the question.
To those not paying attention, perhaps.
Indians have satellite pictures of the places mentioned. Indian spy satellites extensively digitise this region. A lot of data was supposedly provided to American forces active in Afghanistan by the Indians. I've only read about it somewhere, I can't remember now. Maybe someone else can fish it out for you.
When it comes to defending Musharraf, your ilk is not unlike the brainwashed masses we have to face. "This is all a media conspiracy to defame Musharraf, these camps don't exist, Musharraf is doing all he can. etc." Take your pick.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You goons keep spewing this junk, until I hit you with real facts. Then you sputter and howl your "loving" rhetoric.
Hey Professor, there are no Musharraf lovers around here that I've seen. But there are indeed some very poorly informed Musharraf haters whose only defense is to call those of us with some knowledge of the situation "Musharraf lovers."
Perhaps that's your juvenile definition of "in the face of facts." Whatever the case, some adults around here would like to get back to discussing the global war on terror.
This thread is based on a report by a courageous Pakistani journalist documenting the Musharraf allowed terror camps that are thriving in Pakistan with photographic evidence. These are facts.
Next time come with facts, not some GPS map and half-baked theories. You always have the choice to keep living in your Mushburrow and let us realists get on with our fact-based discourse.
Rational thinking is fun. You should try it sometime.
It seems funny how every time there is a terrorist attack (9/11, Indian Parliament attack, London bombings) which is traced back to Pakistan, immidiately the next day Mushy orders a "crackdown". And a highly publicized "crackdown" thats taken on camera by many news channels and shown around the world as proof of Mushy's cooperation in GWOT. The question is....just how many "crackdowns" does one need to put an end to this nuisance once and for all? Plenty of crackdowns have been done till date but whats the result? Why are these "crackdowns" carried out only a day after a terrorist attack involving loss of lives has already happened somewhere in the world? Why is it that, inspite of so many "crackdowns" done every now and then, the madrasas and terrorist factories are still thirving and doing business as usual with complete impunity?
Now here is the truth.........
The fact is........ only one "real" crackdown is what is required to dismantle the entire terrorist infrastructure/network.
Mushy is faking this WOT. It is his regular farcical excercise to round up some bearded men in madrasas who probably had nothing to do with terrorism) who were simply present there at that moment when the raids were being carried out. And ofcourse they will all be released after a couple of weeks of detention when things calm down on the international scene. And then Mushy will be tossing up some alleged #2 or #3 from his pack and the world (read US/UK) will be happy, US MSM will be happy, the jihadis and terror organisations will loose nothing (much of their infrastructure,network, funding and manpower will still remain intact), Mushy will be praised for his coopration to GWOT and will be given more military and financial aid, and Mushy and Co (the GHQ) will all be happy. Its all win win in GWOT.
Mushy has quite successfully managed to popularise a lie that his "to-be successor" would be a jihadi brandishing a nuke and he has with equal amount of success managed to scare the US administration into believing his lie.
Now all he has to do is orchestrate a few more "failed" assination attempts on himself to drive home the point about the odds he is facing so that the world comes to appreciate his tenuous position, and he can make it his selling point to ask for more aid for his "so-called" contribution to GWOT. And this is how Mushy has been making jackasses out of the US MSMs and the US administration and with time he has only mastered the art of double game to perfection.
India being the only country able to see through Mushy's agenda was always told to keep low the anti-Pak rhetoric/propaganda or bugger off, whenever we warned the world about the dangers posed by islamic terrorism emanating from Pakistan.
......Fine! Now we Indians neednt say anything but just sit back and watch as the free world discovers the truth about Pakistan .......the hard way!
(*a bit harsh but thats just how truth is)
To many 7/7 is the begininning of the end of Musharraf's charade. As for your ilk, who knows - Musharraf might even send you guys an autographed poster of one of the terror camps he is running in picteresque Pakistani Kashmir. That would be cool, wouldn't it? But wait, you probably know that already since you're in the Musharraf fan club mailing list.
And to people like you this is apparently news. Look up "ISI" sometime, Professor. Now go back to the kiddie table.
And you talk about facts!
Good Ping. Thanks.
D'uh!
FYI Dog, Mush is talking outta both sides or izzat three sides, of his mouth.
The speech he gave to Pakistan, along with Nightline and CNN interviews, however cheeky and spunky in criticising Britain (after all, he does have a point), but reiterating were different in tone from the Urdu part of the address delivered on Pakistani TV live to the nation.
.......In an acknowledgement that his previous orders had been circumvented, General Musharraf said this time militant groups would not be allowed to escape the ban by renaming themselves.
But previous crackdowns have been ineffective in part because General Musharraf relies on hardline Islamic parties for support, and it remained unclear whether his new campaign would be more effective than the others.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/musharraf-walks-the-tightrope/2005/07/22/1121539155006.html?oneclick=true
Nice thing, the the word association taking place nowadays, Pakistan and Terror almost always in the same sentence.
A small victory but hey...!
Saber.. You can wake up someone who is asleep but not one who is pretending to be asleep. Coop and his like believe in Mush because they want to. They dont care about facts.
India needs to take matters in their own hands. Regardless of whether US or whoever likes it or not.
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