Posted on 07/20/2005 7:01:09 AM PDT by kellynla
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - All of the estimated 10 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the United States would have to leave the country under an immigration bill introduced on Tuesday by two conservative Republican senators.
The bill by Arizona Sen. Jon Kyl and Texas Sen. John Cornyn is a tougher alternative to a rival bipartisan bill introduced two month ago that would allow some illegals to get jobs legally and eventually gain citizenship without leaving the country.
The Kyl-Cornyn bill calls for the creation of a machine-readable, tamper-proof Social Security card that would be issued to every American in the workforce to prevent illegals from getting jobs.
It would also fund the hiring of 10,000 new Department of Homeland Security personnel dedicated to weeding illegal immigrants out of the workforce and an additional 1,000 for detecting immigration fraud.
Companies that hired illegal immigrants would face tough fines.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
We both agree that law enforcement is way to get the illegals out. But this new bill is not law enforcement, its just another law. Its not actually giving law enforcement any new funding, and its not even giving law enforcement any more tools. It will take years, perhaps as long as 10 years, for everyone in America to get a Citizen ID card. So until then, a national ID card is useless for law enforcement agents. Do we want to wait 10 years to start getting rid of illegals?
We already have laws that punish illegals and the people that hire them. We need to enforce those laws.
In my opinion, the way to get rid of illegals is to build a big God damn wall across every inch of our border, increase the Coast Guard and US Customs, then purge the Social Security database and welfare database and driver's license databases looking for irregularities. And on top of that, we need to get rid of the nanny state that gives out free money to any one who says they need it.
I agree
"The shock is that the pubs have done and said nothing."
Exactly....
PS. They stole WI too.
The kool aid is just too tasty for some.....
Speaking of KOOLAID, it's too hot to be sitting here fighting with the nitwits.
I'm going sailing.
Have fun!
SO you think to avoid fears of verifying people's identity, we should allow illegal aliens to work.
well we need a NATIONAL DATABASE period!
so everyone can be checked...
"We already have proper proof of citizenship, we have our government numbers (SS) and we have birth certificates, and both of which are mandatory to be legally hired. A national ID card is NOT going to fix the problem. The card is going to be as easy to forge as the new $20 bill."
... which today is pretty darn hard to forge...
This is not about creating a new ID, but about making the Social Security card and SS system tamperproof so it can weed out the many millions of cases of document fraud that illegal aliens and wink-n-nod employers use to get around the laws.
THIS IS A GOOD THING.
Soc Sec ID is required for jobs for 20 years now, there is not a valid 'big brother' fear there that isn't already on the table. You mention it - already mandatory to have SocSec.
"I agree, get them out of the country (hell, send 'em out to international waters for all I care), but this bill isn't going to get them out of the country."
DO YOU HAVE A BETTER SUGGESTION FOR HOW TO VERIFY LEGAL RESIDENCY WHEN AN EMPLOYEE SHOWS UP FOR WORK????
"This bill is nothing more than the government grinding it's jackboot into our chests a little harder."
Drama queen alert. ... This is a fraction of the info some credit agency already has on you.
"The Kyl-Cornyn bill calls for the creation of a machine-readable, tamper-proof Social Security card that would be issued to every American in the workforce to prevent illegals from getting jobs."
versus
"EVERYTHING is forgeable"
Every lock can be picked, BUT the higher level of security can drastically REDUCE THE LEVEL OF DOCUMENTATION FRAUD which is an epidemic.
It is not hard to create a tamper-proof card and hook it into a national database that could INSTANTLY eliminate 99% of the abuses in employment going on today. The effort to create another card is one thing; but the effort to going around a database is another.
"The national ID is a step on the way to slavery. "
Do you feel that way about your Mastercard or Amex?
Or driver's licence?
The government permission slip to drive bothers me somewhat, although i rarely drive and could do without it.
I have no credit cards anymore and but when I did, they served me. They beg me to let them serve me again.
The government does not serve, it intrudes and it steals and it tries to run one's life.
My basic motivation in life is to prevent that.
Why should I be exited about the supposedly tamper proof SS card that I am required to have, even though I've never contributed a dime to SS?
It's not a national ID card. It's a remake of something we already have. I can accept that. Everyone has a Social Security card now. It's not creating a national ID card, just revamping the existing card.
"Why should I be exited about the supposedly tamper proof SS card that I am required to have, even though I've never contributed a dime to SS?"
What?!? Are you living on welfare?!?
The exciting thing is this:
- illegal immigration exists because illegal aliens can get jobs and Govt services. Without the jobs and govt services, the desire to come will disappear. They get jobs because, despite laws, there is no reliable VERIFICATION METHOD FOR LEGAL RESIDENCY in place across the US. A system has been put in place to fix this. It WORKS. It requires for US rollout
to be supported by Congress ...
http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=2314&c=13
"The resulting document verification system is called the Basic Pilot program. Within three working days of hiring a new employee, a participating employer electronically submits a new employee’s Social Security number, name, and birth date to the Social Security Administration (SSA) to be checked against its database. If the employee is foreign-born, the data is also sent to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS)—previously to the INS—to verify that the new employee is in a legal work status, e.g. immigrant, temporary worker, or refugee. Within a few days, a response comes back indicating either that the employee has been identified and is authorized to work, or that authorization cannot be made. In the latter case, the employee must be informed and is given eight work days to contact the SSA and/or the DHS to reconcile any incorrect data in the agency’s database. If the discrepancy is not reconciled after ten days, the employer is notified that the employee is not authorized to work. The employer then must either terminate the employee or become subject to sanctions for knowingly employing an illegal alien, unless it can be proven that the government erred."
Document verification is KEY to ending illegal immigration.
Cornyn / Kyl are seeing the light here... that's GOOD.
This is an interesting way of putting it. Actually I think that the danger posed to our free and open society and the American way of life by giving the government the tools to track and trace all of its citizens' identity, preferences, movements, purchases, affiliations and perhaps even medical conditions is a much larger than the threat posed by people who cross the border with the sole purpose of wanting to live a better life.
Indeed there is a terrorist threat posed by illegal aliens, but stopping them from getting jobs will certainly not do anything to solve it. I don't like the idea of illegals, but I like this solution to the problem even less.
If you want to keep them from getting jobs, punish the people who hire them. Putting a few of the factory and restaurant owners behind bars for a long time will solve the problem very quickly. They won't come if everyone is too afraid to hire them.
An ID card won't stop people who don't fear punishment for paying an illegal for a job that doesn't "exist".
"If you want to keep them from getting jobs, punish the people who hire them. Putting a few of the factory and restaurant owners behind bars for a long time will solve the problem very quickly. They won't come if everyone is too afraid to hire them."
What you dont seem to grasp is that in the current situation, documentation fraud is so easy, the employers "rely" on documents that are made at shill fake-ID factories. The employer turns a blind eye. IT IS THE WEAKEST LINK IN OUR IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT CHAIN, EVEN MORE IMPORTANT AND MORE BROKEN THAN BORDER ENFORCEMENT.
We need tamper-proof IDs and a database that tracks people against social security numbers to be even able to HOLD EMPLOYERS ACCOUNTABLE... See this:
http://www.fairus.org/ImmigrationIssueCenters/ImmigrationIssueCenters.cfm?ID=2314&c=13
So we have (a) vague unsubstantiated fears of an ID system being abused by 'big brother' versus
(b) a broken system that needs fixing by upgrading IDs and databases *that already exist*, to fix illegal immigration.
I'd go for fixing the real problem and ignoring the unsubstantiated fears.
giving the government the tools to track and trace all of its citizens' identity, preferences, movements, purchases, affiliations and perhaps even medical conditions"
This bill does nothing of the above. It merely makes the CURRENT Social Security card less amenable to being forged,
and improves how that is used for employment verification.
movements, purchases, medical histories??? have nothing to do with this.
2. Have you ever heard the saying "just because you may be paranoid does not mean they aren't out to get you"?
A question:
If President Hillary Clinton (God forbid) were the one advocating this measure, how would you respond?
Unlike my congressboy who never worked an effing day in his life, I never had a job in my life.
When I started out at 17, my accountant told me I had the option to pay or not. Since I already knew it was a ponzi scheme, I did't pay in.
I've never drawn a paycheck. I've just bought and sold.
The rules probably changed along the way but nobody told me and I didn't ask.
Haven't done anything to make money in years and probably will never bother again.
I'd rather be hungry than pay taxes though unless the whole country collapses I don't have to worry.
Those who think they will have SS are the ones who are fools and they're screwed.
Good Post! I don't give a rat's behind if we need a national id card. Better that than our grandchildren live in a 3rd world cesspool.
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