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Posted on 07/19/2005 10:21:13 AM PDT by TexKat
Teen Ordered To Give DNA Sample In Aruba Case
Jul 20, 2005 12:02 pm US/Eastern
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) Authorities ordered a Dutch youth held in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway to provide investigators with a DNA sample, the young man’s defense lawyer said Wednesday.
Joran van der Sloot was taken to a hospital Tuesday and submitted a saliva sample for the genetic testing sought by prosecutors, defense lawyer Richie Kock told The Associated Press.
Kock said he understood DNA samples also were collected from two Surinamese brothers, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who were detained along with van der Sloot but have since been released.
Government spokesman Ruben Trapenberg said he could not confirm the report and lawyers for the brothers were not immediately available for comment.
Authorities said the DNA would be compared to other material found by investigators but did not specify what the material was, Kock said.
Investigators said Monday they planned to conduct DNA tests on blond hair attached to duct tape that was found along the coast to see if it came from Holloway—in a possible break to the 6-week-old mystery. The FBI said it would conduct a separate genetic test on the hair. It was unknown when the results would be disclosed.
A park ranger found the duct tape while collecting trash Sunday on Aruba’s northeast coast—the opposite side of the island from where the 18-year-old Alabama woman was last seen in public.
Extensive searches by Dutch marines, Aruban police, and some 2,000 volunteers have found no trace of Holloway, of Mountain Brook, Ala., last seen leaving a nightclub in the early hours of May 30 at the end of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island.
A group of volunteer searchers from Dickinson, Texas, said Wednesday they were prepared to return to Aruba if it turned out the hair found along the shore came from Holloway.
http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstories_story_201120456.html
By Jeff Keller/Current-Argus Staff Writer
Jul 20, 2005, 02:36 am
CARLSBAD — Mere days after returning from Aruba and the search for a missing Alabama teenager, Carlsbad resident Diane Whetsel may be on her way back by the end of the week.
Whetsel and her 8-year-old male border collie Rip spent more than three weeks searching for Natalee Holloway before returning to Carlsbad over the weekend. However, newly discovered material in the case has brought new life to the search.
According to a story from The Associated Press on Monday, a park ranger found duct tape with blond hair attached to it Sunday. The story states that DNA tests are being done to see if it is Holloway’s hair.
Whetsel said once the discovery was made, she was contacted by members of the Texas Equusearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team about returning to the island.
Whetsel said she might be heading back to the island as soon as Friday, but Rip would probably not make the return trip with her. Whetsel is a diving master and said this time she would most likely be returning to help solely in diving rescue efforts.
The area where the duct tape was found is close to an area where she and Rip had discovered a newly excavated site in the sand, Whetsel said.
“We found the site on Friday,” Whetsel said. “The site was 6 feet long, 2½ to 3 feet wide and about 3 feet deep. It had dirt next to it, but Rip could not find anything in the site.”
Whetsel and Rip are now wearing bands that members of the Holloway family gave them. Rip has a thread around his neck, and Whetsel has two thread and two plastic bands around her wrist.
The plastic bands read “Pray for Natalee.” Whetsel said Natalee’s father, Dave Holloway, and her aunt Linda gave the bands to her.
Whetsel said if she goes back to Aruba, she hopes she will be able to help provide an end to the search.
“I want this to be resolved,” she said. “Anything I can do to provide closure for this family is my goal.”
Former CNN legal analyst Greta Van Susteren is causing a buzz at Fox News, her new home. (Tyrone Turner / For The Times)
I don't know with 100% certainty how I would react but my instincts tell me that I would refuse to give DNA without a court order.
It is bad enough that Big Brother already has tons of info on me, including my fingerprints from having served in the military.
You have to try to remember that Big Brother is always watching.
I may be naive, but I have no problem with having DNA/fingerprints, etc. on file for me.
Furthermore, it is open to interpretation what kind of an attitude the fellow had.
Get it!
Well whether you get tired of it or not, the fact fact that it is legal in aruba to do some things that aren't legal here. My point was we might or might not agree with kids going there, but that it still isn't an excuse for someone to get murdered. It's also an innappropriate time to look down one's nose at a choice that had never had such ramifications before. Back to that whole hindsight thing.
I know you were being sarcastic--the difference in the evil that happens here, and the evil that happens elsewhere is the type of help we can hope to get from LE. I know there are Mayberry's here that would protect the local Sherrif's kid, I mean look in Orange County for an example of what appears to be some serious cover ups. Ted Kennedy is another huge *hee hee* example. Bad stuff happens, we come across sociopaths, we make a right turn instead of a left turn and things happen. I just think the lack of real assistance to the Halloway/Twitty families is intentionally awful with almost no way to go up the ladder to get a different response.
No you knock it off - you have posted bad info many times and have been called on it several time not only by me but by others. I am sorry that you and others take offense to being corrected.
OTOH, what this case has done, is to bring attention to the fact that our kids can go wild in Aruba, and it should be expected if we let them go.
I'm certain that if Natalee's parents had known what went on, they would have never allowed her to go on that particular trip. So, because of this case, many parents can either choose to listen up or ignore what the kids are up to over there. That's all.
'The Abrams Report' for July 19
All right. Now to the latest out of Aruba. Police waiting for DNA test results on what could be the first piece of real evidence in the investigation into Alabama teen Natalee Holloway‘s disappearance. A piece of duct tape and four blond and brown hairs found on a rocky beach over the weekend. A park ranger collecting trash in the area came across the duct tape. He says initially he dismissed it as a piece of garbage, but quickly realized it might be something more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIO RASMEAN, FOUND DUCT TAPE WITH HAIR: I pick it up to throw it away but I saw some hair on it and I said, no, this is not just duct tape. It‘s something more. I didn‘t think about the missing girl but I think about crimes at the same time and that put me to call the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Test results are expected within days. Joining me now once again, NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski. So Michelle, do we have any better sense of exactly when those test results will come back?
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well we‘re told within a week, but talking to the FBI today they said it had not yet reached Quantico. That‘s where the FBI lab is. So a week is right now the amount of time they‘re giving us.
We also know that more FBI agents other than the one that was remaining here are now on the island and they just met with Beth Holloway, Natalee‘s mother. So there is some further investigation going on. We don‘t know for sure at this point if it‘s directly related to that find, because keep in mind until testing is done, we don‘t know if it‘s connected to this case or not. Also, because of this...
ABRAMS: Sorry to interrupt you...
KOSINSKI: ... duct tape and the hair...
ABRAMS: ... let me just ask you one quick question.
KOSINSKI: Go ahead.
ABRAMS: You said it was going to Quantico.
KOSINSKI: Yes.
ABRAMS: It‘s not going...
KOSINSKI: Yes.
ABRAMS: ... to Holland as the Aruban—since you know Aruba is a Dutch territory. The Dutch authorities are not going to be testing it? It‘s going to be tested by the United States authorities?
KOSINSKI: It will be tested by the Dutch in Holland and we‘ve been told that these samples, whatever they have been able to gather, has been split between the FBI and the Dutch authorities.
ABRAMS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
KOSINSKI: The Dutch are really—because they are over this island, they are really considered the lead investigation team but this incident, we know that those samples of the hair were sent to Quantico as well. That kind of lends you some insight into how the investigation is going. That they are obviously being split and the FBI still is playing a role in the investigation.
ABRAMS: All right. Michelle Kosinski thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Coming up, police, the FBI, volunteers, not the only ones looking for Natalee Holloway. They‘ve called in a medium, says she communicates with the dead and says she‘s in communication with Natalee. We‘ll talk with her and with Natalee‘s father.
Plus, director Roman Polanski testifies in a British court via satellite from France. He‘s suing a magazine but he‘s wanted in the U.S. for raping a 13-year-old girl. He sues New England because he likes their liable laws but can‘t go there because he‘d be extradited so he gets to testify via videophone. Come on.
Remember stay tuned to MSNBC all night long for full coverage of President Bush‘s choice for the United States Supreme Court, 9:00 p.m. Eastern time is the announcement. We‘ll have it live. Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ABRAMS: Coming up, Natalee Holloway‘s family reaches out to a medium to try and find their missing daughter. She joins us next and Natalee‘s father as well. Back in the states after more than a month in Aruba, first the headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY‘S FATHER: I just want to meet with him face-to-face and ask him face-to-face, if he‘s innocent, I want him to tell me face-to-face.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ABRAMS: Natalee Holloway‘s father, Dave, talking about the meeting he‘d like to have with Dutch teen Joran Van Der Sloot, the only suspect in connection with his daughter‘s disappearance, still in police custody. Natalee now missing for over seven weeks since the early morning hours of May 30.
Joining me now is Dave Holloway. Dave, thanks for coming on the program. Appreciate it. So you spent about a month in Aruba. How hard was it for you to leave?
HOLLOWAY: Well, it was something I had to do just for my family‘s sake and to refresh. We—I‘ve been there a total of 43 days and it just got down to the point where you‘ve become unproductive and you know it‘s time to come home, get refreshed and go back.
ABRAMS: So you do intend to go back?
HOLLOWAY: Yes. The Texas EquuSearch people are going back next Thursday and I plan to go back with them.
ABRAMS: All right. Let me ask you about this meeting that you had with Paul Van Der Sloot, the father of Joran. Paul himself was in custody for a while. What did you say to him?
HOLLOWAY: Well actually I had two meetings. One prior to his entrance into the prison and then a subsequent follow-up after he spoke with Joran and in the second meeting, I asked him what his involvement was in the case.
ABRAMS: And what did he say?
HOLLOWAY: Well, we went over about seven or eight different points and he commented that all of them were a negative answer. That his involvement, his son‘s involvement and the Kalpoe brothers‘ involvement was that they didn‘t do anything wrong and that the last known whereabouts was the beach area north of the Marriott where he left Natalee alone. And I was trying to get answers to determine you know the details, why he left her alone, what condition was she in, you know, some minor details that the police investigation has not shared with us.
ABRAMS: And did he provide you with those answers?
HOLLOWAY: No, he did not.
ABRAMS: Did you trust him?
HOLLOWAY: Well the verdict‘s out on that. I still have the same feeling that I‘ve always had all along that he knows more than what he‘s telling everyone and there at the end, I felt like that through a lot of questioning, that we may have hit on something. And he became emotional and about that time, he wanted to conclude the conversation so we departed.
ABRAMS: Now you have said that his last words were you‘ve got to understand, this is my son and I‘ll do anything for my son. Did you take that to mean something?
HOLLOWAY: Well, I did. It just got down to the point where I told Paul, I said look, you know my daughter is missing and that‘s the worst thing we could have. We either need, you know, find her alive or if she‘s not alive, then you know we need—you know we need some sort of closure. And I told him, I said if something accidentally happened, you know, I‘m a forgiving person and at that point in time, he became emotional and indicated that he could understand my position but as a father, he‘ll have to do anything he can for his son and that I was not going to visit with him.
ABRAMS: And did he say anything about Joran‘s conflicting statements to the police?
HOLLOWAY: He did. He felt like that youth had a lot to do with it and the fact that he left his—left Natalee at the beach, that he—you know the parents and everyone else would be angry with him for doing that and that was the reason they made up the story in the first place. Why, I just don‘t buy it.
ABRAMS: You don‘t buy that story?
HOLLOWAY: Nope.
ABRAMS: How would he know about the Kalpoe brothers? I mean basically, it‘s his contention that look the Kalpoe brothers were with Joran. Joran was the last one to see her so the Kalpoe brothers couldn‘t have had any involvement?
HOLLOWAY: He said they do not have any involvement, but you know it still comes back to the same old question, is why would you ask two of your friends to lie for you and why would you come up with a lie anyway. It just doesn‘t make sense.
ABRAMS: Dave, if you could stay with us for a moment. As Dave mentioned, he had a lengthy meeting on Saturday with the parents of Joran Van Der Sloot—there‘s the video of it—outside the prison. He remains in custody.
Now joining me is someone else who was there at that spontaneous meeting. You see her there. Mary Ann Morgan, a medium invited to the island to help find Natalee. Thanks a lot for taking the time to come on the program. Appreciate it.
MARY ANN MORGAN, MEDIUM HELPING TO FIND NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Thank you for having me.
ABRAMS: All right. So explain to us what your role has been and what you can tell us about what you have seen, heard or you know.
MORGAN: What my role is, is that I‘m a medium and I‘m a search tool just like the divers or the dogs or the searchers, the ground searchers for EquuSearch and I help the team. It‘s all about being a team, whether it‘s with EquuSearch or the detectives that I work with on other cases.
ABRAMS: Now have you been able to contact Natalee?
MORGAN: Actually, Natalee contacted me several weeks ago and I spoke to her briefly in the middle of the night and then I asked her if she could come back in the morning because I was really tired and she came back in the morning and she gave me seven pages of detailed notes and from those, she gave a message to her father, a message to her mother, details about how, when, why, what and where everything happened and that‘s what I took with me to Aruba and what happened was I have a friend that works at Texas EquuSearch, who is Jody Manning (ph), and I called her and said Jody (ph), I know you‘re probably getting lots of calls and I‘m really busy right now but let me just tell you what I got from Natalee because Jody (ph) knows what I do...
ABRAMS: Right.
MORGAN: ... and she said you need to go to Aruba and help these people.
ABRAMS: If she gave you seven pages of detailed notes, why haven‘t we been able to find her?
MORGAN: Because maybe she‘s unfindable.
ABRAMS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and what does that mean?
MORGAN: Well, I believe that there were several things that happened, several stages of this disappearance, and I shared that with all the authorities and they‘re using that to help them.
ABRAMS: And do you think that the information that you provided will ultimately lead them to finding Natalee?
MORGAN: I think it will assist them in finding her.
ABRAMS: And because you are a medium, I believe that means that you contact—that you can sort of communicate with those who are no longer with us. Does that mean that Natalee, according to what you have seen, is dead?
MORGAN: I would assume so, however, I like to hold on to the belief that maybe I‘m talking to one of my guides and one of my guides that is sharing stuff with me, but because of some of the information I was provided, obscure information about family members and family events, it leads me to believe that Natalee is crossed over but we never cease to exit.
We live on through eternity. Death is an illusion that we deal with here in this really. And so when Natalee crossed over, she‘s like in the movie “Ghost”. She is stuck right now because somebody imposed upon her free will.
ABRAMS: What did you make of the meeting? I mean you were there. We saw the video of you there at the meeting between Mr. Holloway and Paul Van Der Sloot. What did you make of that meeting?
MORGAN: Oh, you know, Dave really wants to speak to Joran and I believe that it‘s his right as a father because this is the last known individual to see her—to have seen her alive and Dave is a wonderful human being and like he said, he knows where one daughter was. He showed Paul Van Der Sloot a picture.
He said I know where this daughter is, but unfortunately, I haven‘t seen my other daughter since her graduation. And being there at that moment of time, that was one of the most powerful statements I‘ve ever heard a human being make. Your heart just—my heart went out to him. I had compassion in my soul for this man that is missing this child...
ABRAMS: Yes.
MORGAN: ... and as a parent, it moved me. I try not to get involved within cases that I‘m working on. I try to remain objective as opposed to subjected but this family is an incredibly wonderful family and this is very sad.
ABRAMS: I‘ve got to believe that‘s very difficult to stay detached...
MORGAN: Yes.
ABRAMS: ... from a family that has been this active in this search. Dave, final question to you. Have you—are you a believer? I mean I guess this is a straight out question. Do you believe, you know, because there are going to be skeptics out there who are going to say they don‘t believe in mediums, they don‘t believe in psychics. Do you believe?
HOLLOWAY: I‘m a very open-minded individual. Mary Ann was able to tell me some information or some obscure information about myself and my family that no one else would know. So you know, you start out—I didn‘t know anything about all of this and then when someone tells you and even your producer and co-producer were told some information that is unbelievable. So yes, you have to keep everything in an open mind and listen.
ABRAMS: Dave, good luck. We‘ll, you know, we‘ll keep following it. Mary Ann, thanks a lot for taking the time. Appreciate it.
MORGAN: I enjoy your show.
ABRAMS: Thank you very much.
Thanks DS!
Put up or shut up..
I worry about the continuing of this country to swing to the left and the socialists will want and are winning the battle to control everything. That is my concern.
Information is power.
The more info they have on us as citizens makes them "all powerful."
Thanks TK. Do you have the Greta transcripts?
........If the police show up at your house today and ask for your DNA in connection with a murder would you be so willing to provide it even if you know that you are 100% innocent AND knowing that your DNA would be on file forever?...I don't know with 100% certainty how I would react but my instincts tell me that I would refuse to give DNA without a court order.........
Suspects are with few exceptions not included in permanent DNA databases. Expungement should also be available.I would give my DNA as I know they could easily get a court order if I refused. Were they fingerprinted when arrested? what is the difference, DNA is just an advanced method of determining identity.
http://www.aslme.org/dna_04/description.php
The American Civil Liberties Union has assisted eleven legal challenges to DNA fingerprinting laws, as "unreasonable search and seizure" forbidden by the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. All have failed. Courts have ruled that DNA fingerprinting is a "reasonable" search and seizure or that there is a compelling public interest.
grid of DNA kept by state:
http://www.aslme.org/dna_04/grid/statute_grid.html
Know this. I have always been quick to acknowledge an error. And if I misheard what was said, then it's no big deal..for me or anyone else.
I've spent seven years on this forum to your two weeks, and I can spot someone trying to cause trouble a mile away. They don't last very long :)
So carry on, newbie..I can't waste my time with the likes of you...See ya!
sw
I agree with countryconservative that transcripts are very often incorrect.....that is especially true when the transcript uses the "Crosstalk" trump card. That's like a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card that excuses them from transcript errors.
Stop arguing with each other and try to help solve the case, such as it is. Arguing is counter-productive.
I don't think that anyone on FR deliberately tries to mislead. Mistakes happen. Get over them and try to be respectful with each other. :-)
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