Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 8

Why do you use such language to refer to another human being?

Why haven't the polis made him show them where she's buried?

Probably because of what Van Der Stratten said, something like he did not accept the confession (can't remember the exact words used)...after all, J is his good friend's son.

Exactly. You have to wade through umpteen million pages to find any news over there. Then someone gets a little wild, someone gets wild right back. The admin comes in that threatens to shut the thread down...geezz.

I did like reading some to the MB student posts. Thanks to all the Freepers who are providing those here I can still read them.

Is this a picture of Joran at the International School of Aruba? Look on the left side at the person wearing a bright blue shirt.

http://www.isaruba.com/

LOL. If my youngest starts doing that to me (he's 19) I'm in trouble!

Darn that's it's so far away.

This situation is definitely in need of a FReep.

The further this goes on, they never cease to amaze with their lackadaisical attitude about this case, not to mention bordering on appearing that the whole bunch is in cahoots to sweep this under the rug.

If it were one of the Aruban children missing in this country and they were treated like this, they would be yelling louder than anyone.

Why do you have no faith in
Fuhrman's ability as a
detective?

I think he's proven himself
to be very astute & apparently,
so does FNC.

In this situation, I'd have to
go w/WHO I know something about
and not gamble.

It may be way too late for any
detective at this point in time.
I'd had Fuhrman lined up weeks
ago, if it was my child missing.

We don't know the expertise of
the PI the Twittys have hired.
They may not get any more info
from Aruba than we're getting
now.

Sure looks like him.

What does that sign mean? Is is some kind of teenage thing or waht? They all seem to be givign the sideways V sign all the time. What is that about?

Click on "Photos" at the link.

**

I'll go to Aruba with you. But first we need to read up on Aruban law. I'm sure it's ok for Arubans to protest against the Holloway's but I bet we'd end up in jail for 160 days.
TAW

What does that sign mean?

I don't know, maybe someone can tell us.

'The Abrams Report' for July 18

DAN ABRAMS, HOST: Coming up, a park ranger in Aruba finds what could be a crucial piece of evidence in the search for Natalee Holloway.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ABRAMS (voice-over): A piece of duct tape with blond hairs on it turns up near the water on the opposite end of the island from where Natalee was last seen alive by prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot. This, on the same weekend police take him back to the beach to recount his last moments with her.

The program about justice starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ABRAMS: Hi everyone. First up on the docket tonight, Aruban authorities are waiting for DNA results on what could be a key piece of evidence in the case of missing Alabama teen, Natalee Holloway. Over the weekend, a park ranker came across a piece of duct tape with hairs on it while he was picking up trash on the rocks along the water just a day after and across the island from the beach where police brought suspect Joran Van Der Sloot to again retrace his final moments with Natalee in the early morning hours of May the 30th.

Joran admitted to being with Natalee on the beach near the Marriott hotel but says he left her there alone, insists he knows nothing about her disappearance. The authorities say he‘s offered conflicting accounts.

Joining me now NBC‘s Michelle Kosinski. Michelle, all right, what do we know about this new evidence?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well as you said, this park ranger was in this remote area of a national park making his rounds; he spots something in the sand. It was shiny. It was silver. It looked like it had washed up. So he goes and takes a look at it. He sees that it is a piece of duct tape. It has about four hairs on it. Some of them light, some of them dark, and he says normally, this is something you know he wouldn‘t give a second thought to but given what‘s been going on, on this island, he just couldn‘t ignore this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIO RASMEAN, FOUND DUCT TAPE WITH HAIR: I pick it up to throw it away but I saw some hair on it and I said no, this is not just duct tape. It‘s something more. I didn‘t think about the missing girl but I think about crimes at the same time, and that put me to call the police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSINSKI: So now this tape with hairs attached has been sent to a lab. We‘re thinking it will be about a week from what authorities are telling us before we know any results as to could this possibly in any way be connected to Natalee Holloway.

Now as you also mentioned, it‘s funny, there‘s so little information in this case. There‘s no sign of Natalee, but so much is going on, on this island and yes, Joran Van Der Sloot once again was taken out of jail over the weekend and brought to that spot on the beach where he says he was last with Natalee on the morning she disappeared. In fact, he says he left her alone on that beach.

We saw police leading him around in handcuffs. He got out of the car. He was talking to them. For a little while, down to the beach and then he was brought back into the car and driven away. So we don‘t know too much of the outcome of that.

Now keep in mind Natalee Holloway‘s family has been desperate for any information in this case. Her father left the island this morning, but over the weekend, he had one thing he wanted to do, to talk man-to-man, as he put it, to Joran Van Der Sloot, but he ended up in this unexpected encounter with Joran‘s parents.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI (voice-over): Natalee Holloway‘s father has one last goal here...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

KOSINSKI: ... to talk to Joran Van Der Sloot.

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY‘S FATHER: He has professed his innocence and as a father, I just want to meet with him, face-to-face and ask him face-to-face—if he‘s innocent, I want him to tell me face-to-face.

KOSINSKI: Instead, he met Joran‘s parents unexpectedly as they were leaving the jail. They clasped hands, would not let go, had a heart to heart for more than an hour. Dave Holloway says Anita Van Der Sloot wanted him to talk to their son, said Joran wanted that too, but Paul Van Der Sloot would allow it only after the investigation.

Holloway said they described Joran as torture, that he hates himself and cries and says he was stupid for leaving Natalee alone on the beach but insists he did not harm her. And Holloway says Paul Van Der Sloot denies ever telling the suspects no body no case, denies that anyone in his family was involved in Natalee‘s disappearance.

HOLLOWAY: I sense that that‘s not the case. The last words was you know you‘ve got to understand this is my son and I‘ll do anything for my son. And with that, you know, my confidence level was not very high with him.

KOSINSKI: He says Paul Van Der Sloot broke down and cried. Holloway and his searcher presented them with three books for Joran, a bible, “The Purpose Driven Life”, and “Living in the Moment”. They hugged and walked away. Dave, not ready to give up.

HOLLOWAY: Well it‘s just like anything else. He professes that he‘s innocent and if he is, you would think that he would be able to tell me face-to-face.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: When you talk to the family about this new potential evidence, duct tape with hairs on it, some blond, some about six inches long, yes, they‘re hopeful that it could lead to something in this case, but then again they‘ve seen so many times where searchers have found something that just stopped them in their tracks saying wow this could be it, and then it turned out to be nothing.

And Dan it‘s also interesting when you think of some of these areas where the surf is rough. These are the places where searchers look countless times, also media crews have been to these areas, so honestly a piece of duct tape could have come from just about anywhere.

ABRAMS: Let me ask you a quick question. We had talked on Friday about what EquuSearch had said that they found. They said they thought they found something like a shallow gravesite. Let me play this piece of sound. I want to know how far away the piece of duct tape was found from this that Tim Miller was talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM MILLER, EQUUSEARCH VOLUNTEER: It was six foot long. It was four foot deep. Dirt was piled on the side of it. If anybody‘s ever went to a funeral see what a grave looks like, that‘s basically what it looked like. Again, it was in a remote area, an area that‘s easy to pull up, carry something maybe 100 feet at most, and get rid of it, an area where nobody could have seen somebody doing something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABRAMS: Michelle, how far was the tape found from there?

KOSINSKI: Well the entire national park is about one or two square miles large. The shallow grave or what looked to be that was inside the park and this was found obviously on the coastline in a cove, so it‘s not very far. It‘s tough to gauge because you‘re going down all of these dirt roads...

ABRAMS: Right.

KOSINSKI: ... and the place where that burial spot is not marked on a map at all. In fact, it was so tough to find that people were getting lost trying to find it. So it‘s within about a mile for certain, but it is in a different area...

ABRAMS: OK...

KOSINSKI: ... if that makes any sense.

ABRAMS: All right...

KOSINSKI: Just on the coast, that within the park...

ABRAMS: Fair enough.

KOSINSKI: ... so it‘s interesting...

ABRAMS: Yes.

KOSINSKI: ... that they were found in the same place, both remote.

ABRAMS: All right. Michelle thanks a lot. Keep up the great work.

Appreciate it.

All right. So we‘ve got this hair—several hairs stuck to a piece of duct tape on a rocky beach across the island from where Natalee was allegedly seen by Dutch teen Joran Van Der Sloot and he‘s the only suspect in custody. So the question is what do we make of this?

Jossy Mansur is managing editor of Aruba‘s “Diario” newspaper and Clint Van Zandt is a former FBI investigator, MSNBC analyst.

All right. Jossy, are we making too much of this duct tape with the hair?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, “DIARIO”: I don‘t think so. I think it‘s the closest they have come to an anything that could be a real clue to what happened to this girl that early morning.

ABRAMS: Let me play a piece of sound from the ranger here, talking about the duct tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RASMEAN: It looked fresh. It looked fresh. It can be a couple (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because if something is on that cove, on that rocks, all this water, the waves would hit against those rocks, it will get wet. But in this case, it was still dry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABRAMS: Clint Van Zandt, what to make of that?

CLINT VAN ZANDT, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Well Dan, I mean we hear of grasping for straws. I think this is grasping for hair right now. I mean number one, we‘re dealing with Joran Van Der Sloot. This is some guy who‘s changed his story eight different times. So I‘m not even—I don‘t even know if he knows what the story is he‘s told it so many different times. And as you well know, you know, a piece of duct tape floating up, normally in this investigation this would mean nothing but you know, the parents are so desperate to know what happened as is law...

ABRAMS: But what about the fact that it wasn‘t dry—I mean what about what he just said? He just said that it can be there a couple of hours because if something is on the cove on that rocks, all this water, the waves will hit against those rocks, it‘ll get wet. But in this case, it was still dry.

VAN ZANDT: Well you know, if it‘s related, that‘s going to tell us perhaps that this young girl is dead. So that‘s a terrible thing for the parents to have to go through. But very quickly, as you know, we will find out from the DNA, from the hair if it‘s related or not. If it is her DNA, we‘re going to find perhaps fingerprints, other hairs and fibers and by finding that, that could unfortunately...

ABRAMS: Yes.

VAN ZANDT: ... confirm (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that something terrible has happened...

ABRAMS: Jossy, how—I mean we‘re all sort of on the outside saying look, this could be the first piece of evidence. Are your sources who are investigating this case or close to the investigators telling you anything about what they think about it?

MANSUR: Well they feel a certain confidence that this is the first real break that they‘re about to get in this case. They feel confident of what they got. Maybe it will turn out to be nothing, but they have the impression that it is and it‘s been sent to Holland already and I think part of it has been sent to the FBI.

ABRAMS: Does it have any connection to that supposed grave as we put it? I mean we don‘t know there is a grave, but Tim Miller from EquuSearch thought it looked like a grave found in a remote area. Do they believe there‘s a connection there?

MANSUR: There might be because it is close enough to it. It‘s within a mile or half a mile to the park, the Addicott Park (ph), and where that duct with those hairs was found is called Boca Tortuga (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

ABRAMS: Here‘s a little bit more from the ranger about exactly what the hairs looked like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RASMEAN: It looked like two colors, yes. One blond and one a little bit more darker. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell me the length? Was it long? Was it short and...

RASMEAN: It‘s like another six inches long. Yes, more or less.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABRAMS: So Clint, that in conjunction with what Jossy is saying, you‘re still betting that it‘s going to end up being nothing?

VAN ZANDT: Well, you know Dan, as an investigator, if you‘ve got nothing, you‘ll take anything. So would I take this and run with it, do all the DNA and everything else? Of course I would, but there‘s nothing else other than a piece of duct tape.

Hey, I‘ve been down there. I‘ve been diving down there. There is junk on the water. There is junk floating in. We‘ve had storms that‘s floated back and forth in...

ABRAMS: Yes.

VAN ZANDT: ... so is it worth looking at? Yes. But you know last week, everybody got excited because they found a barrel under water that had absolutely nothing to do with this. Somewhere, there‘s the reality, there‘s the truth of this story...

ABRAMS: Yes.

VAN ZANDT: ... but it‘s yet to be seen if it‘s contained on a piece of duct tape.

ABRAMS: All right. Clint Van Zandt, Jossy Mansur, thanks a lot.

Appreciate it.

VAN ZANDT: Thanks Dan.

Li-Li , start date 6/26/05. Give it a rest , no one is LIstening-LIstening.

I guess we can't be armed!

I wonder if they have a ladies section in the jail? :-)

Why do you have no faith in Fuhrman's ability as a detective?

One reason and not the only reason is Fuhrman accused Jessica Lunsfords grandparents of having something to do with her disappearance prior to Jessica being found.

It is not just Fuhrman but anyone that has a platform (cable news talking heads) that point the finger, accuses others without the facts, I have a problem with.

Fingerpring everywhere.

Don't want to miss the new thread.

I wish someone would put me on this thread's ping list (TexKat, is that you?) so I can be alerted to the new thread and developments in the case.

It's a tough case. But, I believe, the culprit, whomever he/she may be, will eventually be unmasked and the case resolved.

Back to tying loose ends...I'm almost there.

Never mind Mark F...Most of our Freepers can run rings around Aruban Authorities... I don't usually get engaged with these cases.. mostly look for opinions regarding international law and policies impacting social science/global economic issues.. but in my heart, this event has created anger and frustration beyond my wildest dreams.. I am so impressed with comments and discussions of potential leads along with the depth of capacity to explore likely scenarios..

I suggest that Fox News round up ten or twelve Freepers and send them to Aruba to go over that Island and its' inhabitants with a fine tooth comb.. Mark or someone with like experience, could manage the process.. it could be completed within thirty days..

I also suggest that some one with financial ability support a separate group of Freepers to organize and conduct robust demonstrations on the Island... calling for global justice for even the smallest voice.. from a global perspective..it is an extension of human rights..

Now for the "wild hair".. many of our leaders are truly concerned for the human rights/justice of prisoners in Gitmo basically to ensure our "Global PR" Those are people who believe their destiny is to eradicate our Nation.. OH! If we only cared about the human rights and justice for our own littlest citizens with the same commitment ..

OK.. just my pea brain thoughts again...

Fingerpring s/b fingerprint.