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The poverty of dignity erupts in young Sunnis
Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 7/17/05 | Thomas Friedman

Posted on 07/17/2005 5:55:15 AM PDT by madprof98

A few years ago I was visiting Bahrain and sitting with friends in a fish restaurant when news appeared on an overhead TV about Muslim terrorists, men and women, who had taken hostages in Russia.

What struck me, though, was the instinctive reaction of the Bahraini businessman sitting next to me, who muttered under his breath, "Why are we in every story?" The "we" in question was Muslims.

The answer to that question is one of the most important issues in geopolitics today: Why are young Sunni Muslim males, from London to Riyadh and Bali to Baghdad, so willing to blow up themselves and others in the name of their religion?

Of course, not all Muslims are suicide bombers; it would be ludicrous to suggest that. But virtually all suicide bombers, of late, have been Sunni Muslims.

There are a lot of angry people in the world. Angry Mexicans. Angry Africans. Angry Norwegians. But the only ones who seem to feel entitled and motivated to kill themselves and totally innocent people, including other Muslims, over their anger are young Sunni radicals. What is going on?

Neither we nor the Muslim world can run away from this question any longer. This is especially true when it comes to people like Muhammad Bouyeri --- a Dutch citizen of Moroccan origin who last year tracked down the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, a critic of Islamic intolerance, on an Amsterdam street, shot him 15 times and slit his throat with a butcher knife.

He told a Dutch court on the final day of his trial on Tuesday: "I take complete responsibility for my actions. I acted purely in the name of my religion."

Clearly, several things are at work. One is that Europe is not a melting pot, and has never adequately integrated its Muslim minorities, who, as The Financial Times put it, often find themselves "cut off from their country, language and culture of origin" without being assimilated into Europe, making them easy prey for peddlers of a new jihadist identity.

Also at work is Sunni Islam's struggle with modernity. Islam has a long tradition of tolerating other religions, but only on the basis of the supremacy of Islam, not equality with Islam. Islam's self-identity is that it is the authentic and ideal expression of monotheism. Muslims are raised with the view that Islam is God 3.0, Christianity is God 2.0, Judaism is God 1.0 and Hinduism is God 0.0.

Part of what seems to be going on with these young Muslim males is that they are, on the one hand, tempted by secular Western society and ashamed of being tempted.

On the other hand, they are humiliated by Western society because while Sunni Islamic civilization is supposed to be superior, its decision to ban the reform and reinterpretation of Islam since the 12th century has choked the spirit of innovation out of Muslim lands, which has left the Islamic world less powerful, less economically developed and less technically advanced than God 2.0, 1.0 and 0.0.

"Some of these young Muslim men are tempted by a civilization they consider morally inferior, and they are humiliated by the fact that, while having been taught their faith is supreme, other civilizations seem to be doing much better," said Raymond Stock, the Cairo-based biographer of Naguib Mahfouz. "When the inner conflict becomes too great, some are turned by recruiters to seek the sick prestige of 'martyrdom' by fighting the allegedly unjust occupation of Muslim lands and the 'decadence' in our own."

This is not about the poverty of money. This is about the poverty of dignity and the rage it can trigger.

One of the London bombers was married, with a young child and another on the way. I can understand, but never accept, suicide bombing in Iraq or Israel as part of a nationalist struggle.

But when a British Muslim citizen, nurtured by that society, just indiscriminately blows up his neighbors and leaves behind a baby and a pregnant wife, to me he has to be in the grip of a dangerous cult or preacher --- dangerous to his faith community and to the world.

How does that happen? Britain's Independent newspaper described one of the bombers, Hasib Hussain, as having recently undergone a sudden conversion "from a British Asian who dressed in Western clothes to a religious teenager who wore Islamic garb and only stopped to say salaam to fellow Muslims."

The secret of this story is in that conversion --- and so is the crisis in Islam. The people and ideas that brought about that sudden conversion of Hasib Hussain and his pals --- if not stopped by other Muslims --- will end up converting every Muslim into a suspect and one of the world's great religions into a cult of death.

> Thomas Friedman is a New York Times columnist. His column appears Sundays and Thursdays.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: radicalmuslims; ramonstock; raymondstock; raystock; thomaslfriedman
Part of what seems to be going on with these young Muslim males is that they are, on the one hand, tempted by secular Western society and ashamed of being tempted.

Strikes me that this has a lot to do with it. I recall reading that the 9/11 crew psyched themselves for their evil misssion not by praying at mosques but by carousing at strip clubs.

1 posted on 07/17/2005 5:55:15 AM PDT by madprof98
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To: madprof98

One of the London bombers was married, with a young child and another on the way. I can understand, but never accept, suicide bombing in Iraq or Israel as part of a nationalist struggle".

"But when a British Muslim citizen, nurtured by that society, just indiscriminately blows up his neighbors and leaves behind a baby and a pregnant wife, to me he has to be in the grip of a dangerous cult or preacher --- dangerous to his faith community and to the world".

The writer still doesn't get it. The only difference in the terrorists in Iraq and the terrorists in London is their location. Iraqi bombers aren't freedom fighters, they're terrorists. The entire Muslim world is sick. Until the writer reaches that conclusion, he's still deluding himself.


2 posted on 07/17/2005 6:02:42 AM PDT by Arkie2 (No, I never voted for Bill Clinton. I don't plan on voting Republican again!)
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To: madprof98
Islam is already a cult of death. The reason has to do with Islam's inability to reconcile itself to living in an advanced civilization and its presumed superiority over infidel faiths. The conflict is exacerbated by the infidels technology superiority and military powress and the superior Muslims' own backwardness and obscurantism. Naturally this disparity creates the fuel for an orgy of nihilistic violence. Thomas Friedman's statement there is a rationale for mass murder in Israel and Iraq as part of a nationalist struggle is hogwash. The terrorists are seeking to destroy free societies. Islam has metamorphosed into a death cult because it prefers the certainty of death to the dilemma of living in freedom. That's all there really is to it.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
3 posted on 07/17/2005 6:05:58 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: madprof98

They realized it was their last chance to see any non-virgins.


4 posted on 07/17/2005 6:06:41 AM PDT by jimboster (Vitajex, whatcha doin' to me)
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To: jimboster
Sex in the afterlife must be appealing to those who have to endure a puritanical chaste existence on earth. Blowing oneself up is only a pre-orgasmic ectasy to be followed by the ultimate ectasies with beautiful women in the heavenly garden.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
5 posted on 07/17/2005 6:10:38 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: madprof98
It is religion holding sway over the secular that is the problem.
In Western Civilization, that was beaten out of the church over hundreds of years, i.e, the reformation.

Islam has no comparable history, and indeed, in the Islamic, as opposed to Muslim countries, the religion IS the government.

Such a system, by it's very nature, must always be in a physical struggle with the secular, and the disparity mentioned is an inherent feature of such powers.

When Islam takes over in a country that is already fairly modern there will be real problems, as they can work on what was already achieved, (Iran) or buy most of the technology from the enemies of Western Civilization. (Iran, Pakistan)

I know of no way to change that structure except to beat it out of them as we have done in Afghanistan.
6 posted on 07/17/2005 6:28:14 AM PDT by bill1952 ("All that we do is done with an eye towards something else.")
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To: madprof98

Extreme religionists have always been with us, however, most extremists wandered into either evangelism or hermitism and in the past extremism did morph into violence or some form of repression.

However, most religions got past those violent impulses as their worldview matured. Islam simply never outgrew them so we are faced with a violent religious extremism born in the 7th Century.


7 posted on 07/17/2005 6:31:09 AM PDT by wildbill
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To: madprof98
On some level these muslims realize that their culture has been deluded for centuries. They are at war with themselves and are only willing to strike our at themselves (via suicide) if they can take some of the rest of the world with them.

There is no purpose to a religion that does not make the believer a better person. The believers in this death cult do not become better persons, even in their own minds, until they become martyrs

8 posted on 07/17/2005 6:38:47 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: madprof98

Hope our local newspaper, which often prints Friedman's column, prints this one - it'll shake up (and hopefully wake up) the lefties who read the paper!


9 posted on 07/17/2005 6:39:11 AM PDT by Moonmad27
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To: Arkie2
"The entire Muslim world is sick."

Yup. POS people contribute nothing to humanity.

10 posted on 07/17/2005 6:49:01 AM PDT by blam
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To: Arkie2
The writer still doesn't get it. The only difference in the terrorists in Iraq and the terrorists in London is their location. Iraqi bombers aren't freedom fighters, they're terrorists. The entire Muslim world is sick. Until the writer reaches that conclusion, he's still deluding himself.

And that's the truth. Tom Friedman is just another NYTimes liberal who is looking for something to blame other than Islam itself. "One of the worlds great religions" he says. And this from a Jew.

Islam will kill every Jew (and Christian) in the world and think they are doing Allah's will.

Problems in Islam always arise when a Muslims decides to become devout. When a Muslim decides to get serious about doing Allah's will, he gets in line to become a martyr (i.e. sociopathic killer).

11 posted on 07/17/2005 7:06:33 AM PDT by Dark Skies (All Muslims aren't evil...just the real ones.)
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To: madprof98

"Islam has a long tradition of tolerating other religions"

Apparently know one told most of the Muslims this.


12 posted on 07/17/2005 8:02:36 AM PDT by BBell
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To: goldstategop

Muslims are raised with the view that Islam is God 3.0, Christianity is God 2.0, Judaism is God 1.0 and Hinduism is God 0.0.

By George, I think he's got it!!


13 posted on 07/17/2005 8:06:48 AM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: madprof98
There were 1,999 Prophets. All, including Moses and Jesus, were corrupted. All preached peace. The 1,200th, Mohammad, was the last, true Prophet, he preached the sword. All faithful Moslem's must emulate his life, and death.

One hundred years after the death of Mohammad, Islam was five times the size of the Roman Empire. How's that for mestastization?

Islam has been at war with nonbelievers, people who reject the word of God, God's sole true representative, Mohammad, for 1,500 years. A few more hundred years, no problem. Are you ready?

"We love death, more than you love life." OBL.

These young, virile bombers are in a state of ecstasy, unlike they have ever experienced in their life, at the thought of becoming like a bright and fiery star with a detontation for the intoxication of a true and pure moment in the inevitable victory and liberation of the world through Islam. More socialist youth centers, with plastic chairs, a chained TV and a few ping pong tables with a gay leftist youth councilors is the answer, right?

The nuclear weapon is a pure cleansing fire, given by God for Islam, that even though designed by Jews, built by Christians, Mohammad's soldiers will swoop down as if desert raiders and capture. Coming to a nose picking, donut eating, parks and recreations, who's got the nicest black SUV, did you get my tramp cousin daughter a job in the mayors office?, city. SPF 72,000 recommended to prevent skin radiation. Every roof leaks, eventually, every ship does too. Everything breaks down, it is just a matter of time. So will the security. If just 1% of Moslem's dream and want the bomb, that is 10 million. The London bomb maker had a doctoral degree in Chemistry. Osama had a engineering degree. What, you don't think a nice quiet Moslem's kid in Physics isn't secretly giddy at his studies? Or isn't officering his way through the Pakistani nuclear weapons program?
14 posted on 07/17/2005 8:11:58 AM PDT by Leisler ("You're either with us, or against us." GWB. "Well punk( muslim ), what's going to be?" Dirty Harry)
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To: tet68
Muslims are raised with the view that Islam is God 3.0, Christianity is God 2.0, Judaism is God 1.0 and Hinduism is God 0.0.

...And it's now high time to apply a service pack.

15 posted on 07/17/2005 8:26:47 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: madprof98

My tag line is trying to say that for centuries Moslems & Islam has fought brutally to subjagate all other peoples and religions.

The true radical Muslim today is the one who wants to co-exist with all other people and accept other religions.


16 posted on 07/17/2005 9:31:42 AM PDT by citizen (History shows Muslims are Jihadists....The real radical Muslims are the live-and-let-live moderates.)
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To: madprof98
The simple answer, Tommy boy, is because they're here.

One is that Europe is not a melting pot, and has never adequately integrated its Muslim minorities

Whatta you know, it's whitey's fault once again for not totally and instantly surrendering to their own extermination, though Allah knows they've bent over and spread 'em about as far as they can.

17 posted on 07/17/2005 10:20:41 AM PDT by jordan8
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