The Forbidden Book (Why Kings & Communists Fear The Bible)

Sierra Times ^ | July 15, 2005 | Steve Farrell

[Gritty]

I just wrote what I think.

Precisely so. From your explanation of what you claim to have read, it seems you missed the point of it all. Every one of your 'arguments' against the Bible are either refuted by a clear study of it or an understanding of history.

No offense intended against anyone.

Baffling statement, that! You distort the facts or get them out of context and then you blaspheme God Himself ("If it's true that God himself wrote the Biblical words, then he must have been mightily drunk while doing so. And Herman Melville is the far better writer anyway.").

You really should go back and read it again, this time with the purpose of understanding what is actually written, and why. Your own opinions have missed the mark, for whatever reason.

[Pat The Postman]

Hmmm...Mandela a Marxist Stooge? First time I ever read that. New to me. But rest assured, my Prof doesn't brainwash me. I had great fun dining with him and his family, moderate liberal democrats (in the European and not the USA sense) who originate in Canada. So there.
Respect, and have a wonderful Saturday.

[Restorer]

You are obviously correct. LOL

Although in my defense, four of those were childhood injuries and the other five were incurred in a recent bicycle accident.

I went 30 years without breaking anything!

[DaveTesla]

"Bless him."

Got you believing him, eh Pat?

You will be cursing him one day Pat.

[ohhhh]

[Um... I read the Bible a couple of times in its entirety. Better than quoting fragments or doing it the Google way. These were interesting experiences. The Bible was written by humans, and other humans made a selection of books that should be bundled and go under that name.]

I read the bible and continue to learn from our Lord's Word and the bible states that their is one God who used human jewish men to write HIS word for us.
12. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15. And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Again;
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[TalBlack]

"Jesus reportedly said that everyone who was against him should be slain, or words to that effect. That's not cricket."

You have read the Bible twice, WHAT did Jesus say? And what ELSE did He say? ALL of His words are in red so it isn't hard to find them

"'The Bible contains an awful lot of cruelty. As does the Koran. I can't help that, I did not write them."

Thanks for the clarification. You may have noticed that LIFE itself contains alot of cruelty, why wouldn't the Bible?


"The awful practice of declaring yourself the Chosen People is a horrific connection between the Jews and Adolf Hitler."

I'm sorry, PTP, but you're way way out here. To place The Jews on a moral level with Adolph Hitler is grotesque.

The Jews didn't proclaim them selves chosen, rather, they WERE chosen--by God. He gave them his Law and He gave them the Torah with the order that they keep it as given until the end of time. They have faithfully done so thru the millenia so that even at this very moment the language of the Torah is the same exact language in which it was given. Thru trial and travail down thru five centuries(including that little bit that Hitler was responsible for in the 20th century)the Jews have been what they are-His Chosen People.

[vladimir998]

Although I agree with the sentiments of the post, I must disagree with some of the supposed history being presented here: "Why don't we ask the martyred dead? Or have we forgotten that only a few centuries ago hundreds and hundreds of thousands of individuals in Europe were burned at the stake simply for reading the Bible or for calling sin "sin"?"

No one was EVER "only a few centuries ago" in Europe burned "simply" for reading the Bible. Reading the Bible was not a crime. Such an idea is a Protestant fantasy created in the last few hundred years. The early Protestants knew nothing of these supposed burnings for merely reading the Bible or surely the translators of the KJV would have mentioned it in their introduction to their Bible where they mentioned Engliah translations existed long before theirs.

Even though books were rare in the Middle Ages (it commonly took ten months to produce a typical Bible by hand) the Bible was still known and read by those who could read and get of them. And for those who couldn't read (which was a large portion of the population), as Jean LeClercq notes:

Scenes from the Bible were represented everywhere: on doors, in frescoes, in sculptured capitals and tympana, in stained-glass windows and furnishings. Culture and the life of the Church were drawn into unity in and through the Bible. The Bible was the basic book of medieval culture, and medieval culture was essentially a biblical culture.
(Jean LeClercq, "The Exposition and Exegesis of Scripture: From Gregory the Great to St. Bernard," in The Cambridge History of the Bible, ed. G. W. H. Lampe, vol. 2 (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1969), p. 197).


Someone should read Graham's WHERE WE GOT THE BIBLE

[DaveTesla]

Pat here is 116,000 hits on google with the
search Mandels+Communist

Google search Mandela + Communist


"Mandela fest" lionizes a lifelong subversive On July 18th, world leaders and the controlled news media helped Nelson Mandela celebrate his 85th birthday, while totally ignoring his deep-rooted ties to the international Communist conspiracy. Mandela, "loved by all," turns 85 "They adore him like a favorite uncle, idolize him like a rock star and revere him like a religious icon." "Mandela, a watchman" "Johannesburg - Tributes poured in on Friday as former South African president Nelson Mandela celebrated his 85th birthday." Mandela mania "Former US president Bill Clinton has praised Nelson Mandela, saying he has given the world many gifts." (Real News 24/7: A page of unbridled adulation; many links of boundless, effusive praise. Disgusting, but quite telling as to the truly unconceivable dimensions of the worldwide "Saint Nelson Mandela" delusion.) (The above left photo shows Mandela flashing the Communist clinched-fist salute after his release from prison in 1990, flanked by then-wife Winnie and the late Joe Slovo, KGB colonel and South African Communist Party leader, in front of the Soviet flag. The New York Times [to cite one example] carried a photo of this event, but Mandela wasn't shown giving the salute, the flag was cropped out and no mention was made of the Communists in attendance. Above right photo shows him in the same pose. On the right, Mandela greets Cuba's Communist dictator Fidel Castro like a long lost brother or, should we say, long lost comrade.) From Marx to Mandela "The media have conveniently forgotten that Mandela was a hard-core Communist. He drank deeply at the well of anti-American Communist theory, and it has never left his system." (Real News 24/7: The writer of this piece, which came out in February, mentions Mandela's "apologetics for Saddam Hussein" and his claim that Iraq had no WMDs. We need to be distinguish between what, in the latter, happened to turn out to be true [actually, he based this principally on what he heard, such as former U.N. weapons Scott Ritter and the non-findings of Han Blix's U.N. inspection team] and Mandela's rabidly anti-American, fanatical backing of radical socialists [like Saddam].) The Mandela Files "The aim is to change the present world into a Communist world where there will be no exploiters and no exploited, no oppressor and oppressed, no rich and no poor. "—Nelson Mandela (emphasis added) Mandela—the "Great Statesman" "We live in a capitalist country and the chief task of our Party is to destroy Capitalism and replace it with Socialism." (emphasis added—from Nelson Mandela's "How to be a good Communist") African National Congress The homepage of Mandela's ANC has some revealing links. The left menu includes listings for SACP and COSATU, which stand for the South African Communist Party and the Communist-dominated Congress of South African Trade Unions, respectively. Interestingly, the Communist Party's homepage states: "The SACP is a partner in the Tripartite Alliance consisting of the African National Congress and the Congress of South African Trade Unions" and the COSATU's homepage has a similar statement; the ANC stands alone of the three in not proudly boasting of its connection with the other two (one must click on links to discover it). Terror in South Africa Winnie Mandela once said that the ANC and its allies would "liberate" South Africa with "necklaces," by which she meant a hideously cruel form of execution. The website linked to here is one that has graphic photos of this practice, plus pages with equally disturbing photos of criminal brutality from the thugs of Robert Mugabe (Mandela's Communist counterpart in Zimbabwe) and revolutionaries elsewhere in Africa. Be forewarned, these photographs are not for the faint of heart. Not recommended for children under 16. Other pages on the website are also of interest, such as the overview "Russians and Communists in South Africa," which clearly shows the SACP to be made up of Soviet operatives. Mandela addresses a South African Communist Party rally The South African government banned the SACP in 1950 under the Suppression of Communism Act. When this ban was lifted forty years later, Mandela helped the Party celebrate the occasion, addressing them as "comrades" (the customary term of solidarity between Communists) and declared To us as a democratic movement, the lesson of our history is very clear. It is what the peoples of Europe learnt during the turbulent decade of the 1930s, when fascism began its assault on democracy by launching a violent offensive against the Communists. It is the same lesson that the people of the United States learnt during the decade of the nineteen fifties, when the forces of Macarthyism [sic] launched an assault aimed at undermining the democratic heritage of the American people, by conducting a virulent offensive against Communist and left opinion. Nelson Mandela pays tribute to comrades "He spoke with passion, humility and humour about his comrades Ruth First and Joe Slovo, the struggle against racism and how he gave away a £250,000 donation from Margaret Thatcher to the South African Communist Party." The true political identity of current South African President and Mandela successor and clone Thabo Mbeki (left) is also carefully shielded by the lying media. In 1999, The New American's "Insider Report" noted: Thabo Mbeki, now first deputy president of South Africa, is expected to be the next South African president after Nelson Mandela steps down following the June 2nd elections. Mbeki, once the globe-trotting envoy of the terrorist African National Congress (ANC), was also a member of the South African Communist Party. But that has not kept the opinion cartel from giving him a 'moderate' image. (See under Mandela Replacement.) Mbeki addresses the 10th Congress of the South African Communist Party In 1998 Thabo Mbeki, then-president of the African National Congress spoke before the SACP, where he referred to the delegates as "comrades" and declared "I am certain that at the close of this congress we will emerge with a strong and united SACP, ready to contribute fully to the strengthening of the Alliance as a whole."

[DaveTesla]

"But rest assured, my Prof doesn't brainwash me."

Pat would you like to make a wager?

[DaveTesla]

From Marx to Mandela
By George Neumayr
American Prowler | February 4, 2003


So Nelson Mandela doesn't want America to win the war on terrorism. No surprise there. He didn't want America to win the Cold War either. Last September, he described America's Cold War decision to "arm and finance the mujahedin" against the Soviets one of America's "serious mistakes in the conduct of its foreign affairs."

The media have conveniently forgotten that Mandela was a hard-core Communist. He drank deeply at the well of anti-American Communist theory, and it has never left his system. Those astonished at his apologetics for Saddam Hussein -- "Israel has weapons of mass destruction" but Hussein doesn't, according to Mandela -- should remember that he has played defense for madmen and thugs before. His ramshackle South African government maintained ties with Fidel Castro and Muammar Qaddafi. And long before that, he was responsible for a pamphlet called "How To Be A Good Communist" in which he praised the "genius" of Marx, Lenin and Stalin.

America was one of the capitalist countries Mandela wanted the Soviets to trample. "The cause of Communism is the greatest and most arduous cause in the history of mankind," the pamphlet stated. "Our aim is to change the present world into a Communist world where there will be no exploiters and exploited, no oppressor and oppressed, no rich and poor." He thought a "Communist world is capable of attainment" -- since Communism had succeeded so brilliantly in the USSR, China and the Eastern Bloc. But it would require beating the hell out of capitalists: "the Communist movement still faces powerful enemies which must be crushed and wiped out from the face of the earth before a Communist world can be realized. Without a hard and bitter and long struggle against capitalism and exploitation, there can be no Communist world."

Is it a cheap shot to dig this up? No, because Mandela is still under the influence of one-world anti-American ideology. Now instead of wanting a Communist world government that dominates the U.S., he wants a U.N. world government to dominate it. In his mind, America is still an exploiter and oppressor in need of ideological correction. He said on Thursday that "if there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America." Mandela still sees Americans as capitalist pigs, evil enough to commit a "holocaust" for mere money -- "Iraq produces 64 percent of the oil in the world. What Bush wants is to get hold of that oil." (Iraq produces 5 percent of world oil exports, reports CNN.) Mandela even maintains, in his own disgraceful way, the old Soviet canard that America is a racist nation. America, Mandela says, is "undermining" the advance of world government because United Nations chief Kofi Annan is black. "They do not care. Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man?" says Mandela.

The moral-equivalence babble that flowed from Mandela's mouth during the Cold War is being regurgitated on behalf of Hussein. Mandela has said that America must respect the "sovereignty" of Iraq. Did Mandela ever call on America to respect the sovereignty of racist apartheid South Africa? And if Saddam Hussein is sovereign, why isn't the United States? Mandela has no respect for the sovereignty of America, as he demands that America entrust its security to socialists at the U.N.

Bush is a leader "who cannot think properly," says Mandela, spoken like a chilling ideologue. So, according to Mandela, the U.N. must think for him. Even as Bush gives billions to AIDS victims in Africa, Mandela speaks of him as a demented and cruel child. Thankfully, Bush isn't taking him seriously. It is too bad that the world still does.

Pat I have some homework for you....

http://WWW.frontpagemag.com

Get yourself a copy of this, it will save you from a lot of hardship.

RADICAL SON: A GENERATIONAL ODYSSEY
by David Horowitz

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684840057/qid=1121519478/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-1828147-0080828?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[grey_whiskers]

But the Bible and the Koran have more in common than Joe Public would like to believe.

If you had really read the Bible, and compared it to the Koran, your conclusions would have been far different.

Compare and contrast the Koran's commands concerning dhimmitude to the Old Testament commands about treatment of strangers; and then look at how Arabs within Israel have much more freedom and dignity than even, say, Americans in Saudi Arabia.

To have a Dane go on and on about the excesses of the Jews, and the similarities between the Koran and the Torah, given what has been done to the Jews on the Continent within the past century, and what has been done BY Muslims in the past five years, is beneath contempt.

Full Disclosure:

As Bill Mauldin wrote: "I build a shoe. If someone wants to put it on and loudly announce that it fits, that's his business."

You are evidently a statist of the type described in the article, and have inadvertently allowed your mask to slip off. ;-)

Euroweenie TROLL! (Yes, I looked at your homepage.)

[DaveTesla]

I have been reading Pat's posts and Pat is a troll.

[grey_whiskers]

Hmm, ever hear of William Tyndale?

Seems to me some people in authority had problems with scriptures in the vernacular.

OTOH, you can always shack up with the Anabaptists. . .

[snowsislander]

Welcome to Free Republic.

[DaveTesla]

Text of the handwritten Manuscript:
HOW TO BE A GOOD COMMUNIST
by
Nelson Mandela

INTRODUCTION
A Communist is a member of the Communist Party who understands and accepts the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism as explained by Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin , and who subjects himself to the discipline of the Party. (See notes 1, 2, 3 & 4)

The goal of Communism is a classless society based on the principle: from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs. The aim is to change the present world into a Communist world where there will be no exploiters and no exploited, no oppressor and oppressed, no rich and no poor. Communists fight for a world where there will be no unemployment, no poverty and starvation, disease and ignorance. In such a world there will be no capitalists, no imperialists, no fascists. There will be neither colonies nor wars.

In our own country, the struggles of the oppressed people are guided by the South African Communist Party and inspired by its policies. The aim of the S.A.C.P. is to defeat the Nationalist government and to free the people of South Africa from the evils of racial discrimination and exploitation and to build a classless or socialist society in which the land, the mines, the mills, our . . . . . . . (unreadable)

Under a Communist Party Government South Africa will become a land of milk and honey. Political, economic and social rights will cease to be enjoyed by Whites only. They will be shared equally by Whites and Non-Whites. There will be enough land and houses for all. There will be no unemployment, starvation and disease.


Workers will earn decent wages; transport will be cheap and education free. There will be no pass laws, no influx control, no Police raids for passes and poll tax, and Africans, Europeans, Coloureds and Indians will live in racial peace and perfect equality.

The victory of Socialism in the U.S.S.R., in the Peoples Republic of China, in Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland and Rumania, where the living conditions of the people were in many respects similar and even worse than ours, proves that we too can achieve this important goal.

Communists everywhere fight to destroy capitalist society and to replace it with Socialism, where the masses of the common people, irrespective of race or colour, will live in complete equality, freedom and happiness. They seek to revolutionise society and are thus called revolutionaries. Those who support capitalism with its class divisions and other evils and who oppose our just struggles to end oppression are called counter revolutionaries.


Comrade Liu Hao Schi, member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, says:

we Communist Party members are the most advanced revolutionaries in modern history and are the contemporary fighting and driving force in changing society and the world. Revolutionaries exist because counter-revolutionaries still exist. Therefore, to conduct a ceaseless struggle against the counter-revolutionaries constitutes an essential condition for the existence and development of revolutionaries. If they fail to carry on such a struggle, they cannot be called revolutionaries and still less can they advance and develop. It is in the course of this … [that] ... members change society, change the world and at the same time change themselves.

To succeed in conducting a ceaseless struggle against the counter-revolutionaries, and to be able to play the vital role of being the most advanced revolutionary and driving force in changing society and the world, one must put all else aside and seriously and faithfully undertake self-cultivation.

SNIP.....

http://home.wanadoo.nl/rhodesia/goodcom.html

[Oztrich Boy]

The author tries much too hard to get the Bible to prescribe his own preferences as being God's will.

It's the theocon way (And the polical arrangements of the Time of Judges was probabaly closer to the Taliban than the Founding Fathers)

Or have we forgotten that only a few centuries ago hundreds and hundreds of thousands of individuals in Europe were burned at the stake simply for reading the Bible or for calling sin "sin"?

I don't think those were the actual reasons

[DaveTesla]

How to be a Good Communist - by Nelson Mandela

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1255245/posts

[vladimir998]

Grey Whiskers,

You wrote:

"Hmm, ever hear of William Tyndale?"

Yes I have. I read several books on him just last summer. And he wasn't executed for translating the scriptures. Translating the scriptures was not a crime. He was never charged with "translating" as a crime. Remember, there was no law when and where he was arrested, tried, convicted or executed that said it was a crime to translate the scriptures. Also, he worked in English translation, but he was arrested by non-English speakers, tried by non-English speakers, and executed by non-English speakers. They could have cared less about his vernacular translation in itself. If you read David Daniell's WILLIAM TYNDALE: A BIOGRAPHY (Yale, 1994) he makes it clear enough that Tyndale was executed because he was considered a spreader of Lutheran heresy -- not because he was a Bible translator (which was not a crime!). Also, as Daniell also points out, Tyndale was already being formally accused of heresy BEFORE he began his translation! And just in case you really like detail: Tyndale was strangled at the stake, and his body was burned (page 382). This was commonly done for those who recanted or repented and apparently for those considered particularly honorable even if believed to be misguided.


"Seems to me some people in authority had problems with scriptures in the vernacular."

No. Actually there was considerable problem with people with heretical ideas running around with vernacular translations and fooling people with them. Has anything changed? Ever try to deal with a Jehovah's Witness using only the New World Translation?


"OTOH, you can always shack up with the Anabaptists. . ."

Spare me that fate please!

[Restorer]

Or have we forgotten that only a few centuries ago hundreds and hundreds of thousands of individuals in Europe were burned at the stake simply for reading the Bible or for calling sin "sin"?

The author is quite hyperbolic here. But people were indeed burned at the stake for the sake of the Bible, although generally for making unauthorized translations or for preaching to others their interpretation of what they had read. Probably what he means by "callin sin "sin."

The middle ages did not have a free market in religion. Most people believed that religious heresy was treason against God and should be punished at least as severely as treason against the king.