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Catholics cannot support abortion rights-Vatican
Yahoo News ^ | July 7, 2005 | Phillip Pulella

Posted on 07/07/2005 7:58:28 AM PDT by NYer

The Vatican on Thursday said too many Roman Catholics were not taking their religion seriously and that those faithful who receive communion and still support abortion rights were behaving scandalously.

In an 88-page working document for a synod of bishops to be held in October, the Vatican also decried dwindling attendance at Sunday Mass and reaffirmed a rule that Catholics who divorce and remarry outside the Church cannot take communion.

The document on the theme of the Eucharist said many Catholics had lost the sense of the sacred surrounding communion, which the Church teaches becomes the body and blood of Christ during the Mass.

One part of the document returned to an issue that remains particularly hot in the United States -- whether Catholics who support abortion rights can receive communion.

"Some receive communion while denying the teachings of the Church or publicly supporting immoral choices in life, such as abortion, without thinking that they are committing an act of grave personal dishonesty and causing scandal," it said.

"Some Catholics do not understand why it might be a sin to support a political candidate who is openly in favor of abortion or other serious acts against life, justice and peace," it said.

The U.S. Catholic community was divided last year over whether they should support presidential candidate John Kerry, himself an Catholic who supported abortion rights.

Some Catholics say they personally would not have an abortion but, in pluralistic societies such as the United States, feel obliged to support a woman's right to choose.

But the Church, which teaches that life begins at the moment of conception and that abortion is murder, says Catholics cannot have it both ways.

The document lamented what it called "a crisis in the meaning of belonging to the Church" and an inadequate understanding of the Catholic teaching that the presence of Christ in the Eucharist is real and not symbolic.

It said an increasingly secularized society had weakened the sense of mystery in the sacrament of communion. Too few Catholics were approaching communion with the "fear and trembling" that the true presence of God warranted.

It also listed a series of other "deficiencies and shadows" related to communion, lamenting that too many Catholics were taking the sacrament while they were in a state of sin because they had not gone to confession first.

"The faithful frequently receive Holy Communion without even thinking that they might be in state of mortal sin," it said.

The taking of communion by divorced Catholics who remarry outside the Church had become "a common occurrence in various countries" even though it is officially forbidden.

The Catholic Church forbids divorce.

The document lamented that in some developed countries participation at Sunday Mass was as low at 5 percent and again urged the faithful to keep Sunday holy.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionlovingrats; cafeteriacatholics; catholic; cino; communion; vatican
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To: trisham

If I had seen kids practicing the rules we were taught in Religion clases the I probably would have joined, I certainly took those classes to heart. I think that in my generation Catholic parents have really dropped the ball passing the faith on. I'm against interfaith marriages because I beleive that also dilutes passing on the faith.


441 posted on 07/08/2005 7:28:29 AM PDT by kharaku (G3 (http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com/mp3s/unreleased/evewasanape.mp3))
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To: trisham

I am still very surprised by the number of kids at my Catholic school who were born and raised in Catholic families and basically rationalize protestant interpretations of everything if they bother to justify their disbeleif at all.


442 posted on 07/08/2005 7:30:18 AM PDT by kharaku (G3 (http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com/mp3s/unreleased/evewasanape.mp3))
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To: kharaku
If I had seen kids practicing the rules we were taught in Religion clases the I probably would have joined, I certainly took those classes to heart. I think that in my generation Catholic parents have really dropped the ball passing the faith on. I'm against interfaith marriages because I beleive that also dilutes passing on the faith.

****************

I'm in complete agreement with you regarding interfaith marriages.

443 posted on 07/08/2005 7:30:27 AM PDT by trisham ("Live Free or Die," General John Stark, July 31, 1809)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I see.

Thanks.


444 posted on 07/08/2005 8:13:29 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: ninenot
I see.

Thanks.

You see, it's as clear as glass. Liturgical chr*stianity preaches Protestantism to the Jews and Judaism to the Protestants. Why would not anyone pass on in either direction to a more internally consistent position?

445 posted on 07/08/2005 9:02:20 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vehu' yihyeh pere' 'adam, yado vakol veyad kol bo.)
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To: frogjerk

What a wonderful post about the Eucharist!


446 posted on 07/08/2005 10:16:13 AM PDT by samiam1972 (Live simply so that others may simply live!)
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To: samiam1972

Thanks.


447 posted on 07/08/2005 10:28:50 AM PDT by frogjerk
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To: miyamoto

Now I realize I might not.



Why?


448 posted on 07/08/2005 10:38:19 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: miyamoto
Goodness. Have you had her in for an ultrasound? This is serious, my friend. She needs to stare the plain truth in the face before she makes a decision that will bring misery the rest of her life, to say nothing of ending a life.

You may spend some time with your wife at this site:www.abort73.com. You'll find it worth your while.

449 posted on 07/08/2005 12:20:54 PM PDT by Lexinom (45 million dead and a similar number injured constitutes an "extraordinary cirucmstance")
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To: presently no screen name

Recently, I had a lot of self-reflection and see that all the good I do doesn't erase all the bad I did. If the abortion goes through, I am just as guilty.


450 posted on 07/08/2005 1:11:44 PM PDT by miyamoto
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To: Lexinom

>>She needs to stare the plain truth in the face before she makes a decision that will bring misery the rest of her life, to say nothing of ending a life. >>

I agree. But sometimes staring at the plain truth and believing are two different things. I attempt to get her to FEEL in her HEART that: 1) abortion is wrong and 2)love for the baby.

I don't know if she meant it but on the way home from the clinic yesterday she said I was cold and evil and if I want the baby so much she will give me this baby (in a threatening tone) I don't take this as a good sign but at least we live one more day.

Prayers are working. Thanks to everyone


451 posted on 07/08/2005 1:22:15 PM PDT by miyamoto
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To: miyamoto
Once she sees the baby and holds him (her) in her arms, she will be overwhelmed with joy and sorrow over what she considered doing to him. The birth will bring the two of you closer together, and she will naturally begin to see priorities in their natural order.

You have our prayers, certainly, all three of you.

452 posted on 07/08/2005 2:33:21 PM PDT by Lexinom (45 million dead and a similar number injured constitutes an "extraordinary cirucmstance")
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To: miyamoto

You ARE NOT responsible for someone else's action.

We all do bad (we ALL have a sin nature). Good works doesn't get us into heaven.

The blood of Jesus washed us clean from our sins - He is the spotless Lamb that took all our sins (past/present) on the cross and when we confess Jesus as Our Lord and Savior and follow Him we are assured of Heaven. We need to have a "personal relationship" w/Him. Once we follow Him, good works follow.

All you can do is pray pray pray for your wife. God knows your heart and you are no way responsible for her or anyone else's actions.


453 posted on 07/08/2005 3:38:48 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Both parents are responsible for a child's life. It is NOT the mother's decision alone, and both parents should fight for their child's life.


454 posted on 07/08/2005 3:40:08 PM PDT by kharaku (G3 (http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com/mp3s/unreleased/evewasanape.mp3))
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To: presently no screen name

I feel that I would be responsible for not trying my best to stop the abortion.

What I did yesterday, I considered very mild (telling the docotr I intended to file a medical malpractice suit). I was very shocked that it worked so well in getting the doctor to refuse service (probably due to prayers).

Your prayers will give me more divine inspiration (intervention?) in preventing this abortion and more importantly help bring out her natural maternal instincts.

Thanks for your prayers


455 posted on 07/08/2005 4:15:36 PM PDT by miyamoto
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To: kharaku

If you assume the flood was an ice age, or the result of one metling

No Ice Age

Genesis 6
The flood came because of a corrupt earth filled w/violence.
"And God said unto Noah. The end of all flesh is come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence through them, and behold, I will destroy them from the earth".

Genesis 7
"For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights, and every living thing that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth".


456 posted on 07/08/2005 4:22:08 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: kharaku; miyamoto

It is NOT the mother's decision alone, and both parents should fight for their child's life.


He is fighting - and she's fighting against him.
In this case it is the mother's decision and her decision - so far - is against his. DON'T put condemnation on him by saying he is responsible. He is/has done all he can and continues to pray. You do all you can while you pray and that is exactly what he is doing. NO matter how this turns out - God will bless this husband. He blesses those who follows Him and His commandments.


457 posted on 07/08/2005 4:33:46 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: NYer; Coleus; Salvation
Catholics cannot support abortion rights-Vatican

I support non-abortive contraception, divorce when all else fails - but by Our Lord no Catholic, or indeed any Christian or even moral minded atheists or agnostics can support the genocide that is abortion - IT IS PLAIN MURDER!!! (Nor can we support terrorism!!)

458 posted on 07/08/2005 5:35:47 PM PDT by Irish_Thatcherite (Terrorism is the modern name we give barbarism.)
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To: NYer
The document that is discussed in the article can be found here. The paragraph that is causing all of this controversy is:
72. Various responses have insisted on the relationship between the Eucharist and the moral life, pointing to a significant awareness of the importance of the moral duty flowing from the reception of Holy Communion. Many refer to the fact that too many receive the Sacrament without having sufficiently reflected on their moral state in life. Some receive Communion while denying the teachings of the Church or publicly supporting immoral choices in life, such as abortion, without thinking that they are committing an act of grave personal dishonesty and causing scandal. Some Catholics do not understand why it might be a sin to support a political candidate who is openly in favour of abortion or other serious acts against life, justice and peace. Such attitudes lead to, among other things, a crisis in the meaning of belonging to the Church and in a clouding of the distinction between venial and mortal sin.

I recognize that many of you reject the authority of the Church to make those statements. However, when a politician identifies himself as a Catholic politician, it is incumbant on him, after making that identification, to live up to it, at least in his public and professional life.

459 posted on 07/08/2005 6:54:11 PM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

The whole point of the Vatican's declaration about abortion rights is that it's not a multiple choice doctrine. It is opposed to the scriptural teachings of the church to take such a stance for yourself or to support those who do. We're back to the Catholic's who profess to be Catholic but reject the defining aspects f Catholisism.


460 posted on 07/08/2005 7:51:17 PM PDT by kharaku (G3 (http://www.cobolsoundsystem.com/mp3s/unreleased/evewasanape.mp3))
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