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To: skyman

Peltier chips have been around for a long time. They aren't used because they are horribly inefficient when compared with a traditional heat pump, so I don't know where these guys are getting their saving gasoline figure from. The engine either has to crank the compressor to run the traditional air conditioner, or crank like crazy on the alternator to run the peltier chips.

I would bet that when you run the actual numbers, you'll find that using peltier chips actually reduces your gas mileage as the load on the alternator increases.


7 posted on 07/06/2005 8:45:09 AM PDT by frgoff
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To: frgoff

Yeah, I want to see the numbers run by somebody who knows what they are doing. Still ain't no free lunch, and the laws of thermodynamics have not been repealed.

What I have always wondered about would be using waste heat from the exhaust to run an absorption unit. Same as an RV refrigerator that runs on propane. Exhaust heat is truly waste and stealing some of it to run an AC unit should have no effect on fuel consumption.


18 posted on 07/06/2005 8:54:18 AM PDT by tickmeister (tickmeister)
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To: frgoff
They aren't used because they are horribly inefficient when compared with a traditional heat pump, so I don't know where these guys are getting their saving gasoline figure from.

They throw off a boatload of heat, too - your cooling system will need a cooling system.

21 posted on 07/06/2005 8:58:10 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: frgoff

There is also a savings in weight and complexity that may off-set the excess alternator drive. No compressor, No evaporator, No Condenser, No plumbing, No Freon, No extra belts and Pulleys. All this combined, an Extra-High output alternator in the same space looks really good to a high volume manufacturer. I have a cooler that uses a Peltier device and it works well. I don't expect an car AC to freeze you out of the cab with them, but it can possibly be improved over time........


22 posted on 07/06/2005 9:00:09 AM PDT by Red Badger (The Army makes the world safe for democracy. The Marines make the world safe for the Army.....)
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To: frgoff
Powder..Patch..Ball FIRE!

I would bet that when you run the actual numbers, you'll find that using peltier chips actually reduces your gas mileage as the load on the alternator increases.

I'll take that bet for any amount you want to part with.
Alternator loading on vehicles is much less than AC compressor loading (and alternator loading on newer cars supplemental electric cooling)

26 posted on 07/06/2005 9:01:48 AM PDT by BallandPowder
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To: frgoff
But they won the 'first ever' Ricoh Sustainable Development prize...
59 posted on 07/06/2005 9:45:41 AM PDT by joesnuffy
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To: frgoff

but the enviro wackos will be used by the patent owners to mandate its use despite being so inefficient.

(kind of like developers using nature conservancy to control land prices and competition.)


64 posted on 07/06/2005 9:51:22 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: frgoff

you may be right, but they won a prize based upon what others did not see. sometimes one item is not all that is the product, but it is all the space the news is willing or knows how to explain the product. Ricoh didn't give them an award for theory.


89 posted on 07/06/2005 10:20:20 AM PDT by q_an_a
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To: frgoff
"I would bet that when you run the actual numbers, you'll find that using peltier chips actually reduces your gas mileage as the load on the alternator increases."

Compared to the load on the engine of running a compressor?? I don't think so........

231 posted on 07/06/2005 4:40:26 PM PDT by RightOnline
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