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To: Criminal Number 18F
Let's fisk this lying ex-male-stewardess a little: July 17, 1996, when missile-fire brought the giant 747

He can say it as many times as he likes but that's not what happened.

TWA Flight 800 was shot down

See above

a video showing missile-fire bringing down TWA Flight 800.

There's no such video because there was no missile fire.

The bidding went above $50,000, at which time, the Fox News team, New York, was blocked from further bidding. The video ended up in the hands of NBC, where it was confiscated by the FBI.

Sanders doesn't cite a single named source for any of this. Based on his past performance, he's probably making it up (or similar cranks are resonating with him). As far as video confiscated by the FBI, I don't know if that happened, but if it did, bear in mind that the FBI was investigating whether a crime had been committed. Which is the FBI's job, as much as criminals like Sanders may not like it.

The head of the Fox News team in the field on Long Island

Conveniently nameless

.. was then approached by an American military officer who said there was a major screw-up, the White House had ordered a 48 hour "stand-down" while it decided how to handle this crisis.

Here Sanders, a former male stewardess, slanders the military, by imputing some kind of criminal behaviour to a (once again nameless) military officer. He doesn't even identify what service this alleged, phantom officer is from... an officer is commissioned into a branch of a service and would never ID him or herself as a generic "military" officer.

Significant evidence of missile-fire was already in hand.

No, there wasn't. There was never (and is still) nothing more than speculation supporting the supposition of a missile strike. The physical evidence absolutely, positively proves that the aircraft was not struck by a missile or missile fragment. On the other hand, there is a mountain of physical evidence for a fuel-air explosion.

Much more was easily available. There were witnesses who watching TWA Flight 800 as it headed east toward Paris. They then watched as a missile approached and brought the plane down All 700-odd (!) witness reports are part of the complete docket and I have read them all. About 150 saw a "streak of light." There is no consensus on which way the streak was going.

They didn't see some mysterious light way off in the distance. They were not confused. They knew what they had seen.

First, Sanders here is asserting that all the witnesses saw the same thing (ask any cop how often this happens). Next, he's asserting that people know what a missile looks like.

We now know the FBI and CIA knew they witnessed missile-fire, according to documents recently unearthed through the Freedom of Information Act.

We know no such thing. Sanders has made these assertions right along. In his book, he claims that the White House had a meeting in the SItuation Room which began BEFORE the plane went down, and he implies that Clinton had it shot down.

Clinton was not my favorite president, but he didn't do this, and once again Sanders slanders the military by suggesting that they'd (1) carry out such an order and (2) keep it secret. Didn't happen.

A political decision was then made at the top of the Clinton administration. It was an election year. A criminal act might provoke the sleeping masses.

OK., now he is suggesting that someone else shot the plane down and the Administration covered it up. This is simply loopy.

Truth could conceivably prevail if the shills at the New York Times ceased running interference for the National Security State.

Is it just me, or is that a little paranoid?

Federal propagandists

Ah, which Department is that, Jailbird Jim?

...told the New York Times a criminal act did not bring down TWA Flight 800.

Ah, he means the hundreds of FBI agents and dozens of NTSB investigators and such facilities as the scientists of the Explosion Dynamics Laboratory at Cal Tech. Yep, they're all gummint shills, and the only true torchbearer of truth is a simple ex-stewardess from New Jersey, James Sanders. Excuse me, flight attendant. And felon.

All that explosive residue was from a dog training exercise.

What explosive residue -- the stuff that was on the piece of seat that James D. arranged to have stolen from the NTSB has the same composition as... wait for it... bottom sand.

The New York Times did not interview the St. Louis Airport Police Officer

Here, Jailbird Jim is standing up and knocking down a strawman. The report of a dog training exercise was a media report, not any part of the actual investigation.

I could go on and on... about the only thing that's true in this pathetic loser's writing is his bitterness and rage. He's destroyed his life, and the lives of people close to him, and cast doubt and fear into the hearts of people who were already bereaved, and he makes a good living at it, but you can see the hate is eating away at him.

And hate what? His collossal conspiracy now includes the NTSB, FAA, FBI, CIA (which was not even involved in the whole thing except to lend a computer graphics lab), Boeing, TWA (and American, TWA's successor), the NYT, Fox News, the military, and two of the most different administrations the country's ever produced, BJ Bill's and Cowboy George's. Think about a conspiracy that big (which I guess I am part of because I disagree, to put it mildly, with this loser). For crying out loud, when did Washington ever keep anything secret? Mark Felt's identity as Deep Throat must have been one of the longest-running ever, and nobody died when Nixon fell (except three million Cambodians). And that was a conspiracy between four people - Felt, Woodward, Bernstein, and Bradlee.

Jailbird Jim posits a conspiracy of four thousand people. Cue Napoleon XVI, they're coming to take him away.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

27 posted on 07/05/2005 6:30:40 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F (Support and avenge our fallen operators)
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To: Criminal Number 18F

I hear you. I don't like any of the fact sets, frankly. While none of the various missile theories really add up, I still am left with a quandry. This means it was caused by a spark in low-voltage wiring in the fuel tank.

How many 747's have been re-wired to remove this threat from the fuel tanks?


35 posted on 07/05/2005 6:44:02 PM PDT by Ramius
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To: All

Here is the alt.disasters.aviation newsgroup FAQ. It includes a section on TWA800 that provides backup for some of my statements in previous posts:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~philmil/ADA_FAQ/ADA_FAQ.htm

Here is some technical information on the CalTech EDL studies that established how the event occurred without a doubt.

http://www.ntsb.gov/speeches/ve981021.htm

http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/EDL/projects/JetA/background.html

the Misconceptions page is specially good:

http://www.galcit.caltech.edu/EDL/projects/JetA/misconceptions.html

You also need to read the entire docket on the NTSB website, especially the structures report where they address a possibility of a meteorite by demonstrating that (1) the structural breakup began with the fuel tank explosion, and (2) there is no path from outside the skin of the airplane into the tank. No meteorite, no missile, no shell, no fragment. When the people writing the report wrote about a missile, they just said, "see the meteorite bit." It never occurred to them that there would be people with no scientific training writing books, who wouldn't even read the accident report docket. (It takes about a week, and it's clear from Sanders's writing that he hasn't taken the week, or maybe he has too little education to follow the report).

Someone may say, what about a bomb? Even Jailbird Jim knows it can't be a bomb. Basically, high explosives leave a distinctive signature when they do their work. It was no problem seeing where HE had worked on Pan AM 103, and that plane was nearly as fragmented (and more burned) than TWA 800. There's no such signature on the TWA 800 wreckage.

Sanders and his crowd have asserted that the wreckage was disposed of. Actually GWU has it and uses it to train grad students in accident investigation.

http://www.gwu.edu/~aviation/safetyandsecurity/safetyandsecurity.html

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F


40 posted on 07/05/2005 6:52:32 PM PDT by Criminal Number 18F (Support and avenge our fallen operators)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
I'm not much of a conspiracy nut, but the investigation of that incident stunk to high heaven. If the "center fuel tank" theory was correct, then the FBI and NTSB wouldn't have needed to "stage" that video by using something other than aviation fuel in the tank (to make it explode more easily).

And I have yet to meet a pilot who really believes that aircraft climbed a couple of thousand feet with the cockpit and a huge section of the fuselage forward of the wings blown off (which is how they tried to explain the "missile trails" in the sky).

90 posted on 07/05/2005 8:31:39 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: Criminal Number 18F

done in 27 - thanks

So you agree with the center tanks explosion and the 'zoom climb' video that the CIA produced?

Do you also discount all the eye witnesses? (to a missile)

What was the residue that tested as rocket fuel, seat glue?


119 posted on 07/06/2005 7:27:44 AM PDT by Triple (All forms of socialism deny individuals the right to the fruits of their labor)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
There's no such video because there was no missile fire.

And you explain the independent testimony of over 130 witnesses from all over Long Island Sound (Whose testimony was supressed by the FBI/NTSB) that independently corroborate the Triangulation of a source point for a streak of light that went up from the surface to the plane .....how?

136 posted on 07/12/2005 9:09:20 PM PDT by Wil H
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