Natalee Holloway - Case Discussion Extended Thread 5

Various News Outlets | 7/4/05

[TexKat]

Mountain Brook High School graduate Natalee Holloway went missing May 30 during a senior trip to Aruba.

AP photo

[over3Owithabrain]

What's the frequency, Dark Skies :)

[GarySpFc]

It's a guess based on the things we KNOW. 1) She has not been seen for over a month. 2) Joran was the last one seen with her.
Beyond that, we just don't KNOW anything. Some people here think they can solve the case by reading blogs, listening 24/7 to different news reports, etc. That's not how crimes are solved. It's an interesting exercise, but nothing more than that.

We do know far more than that, and there is evidence. However, you want to paint a picture of a girl out of control. Go back and read the threads, and then come back and tell us we don't know anything beyond your two points.

[xsmommy]

i think most of us feel rather protective towards Beth Twitty, thinking after all she has been through, how fair is it to heap blame on her. that is why some react negatively towards those type of comments, IMO. personally, i can't imagine what she is going through, i don't know that i would have her strength. i think we are all pretty reconciled to a less than happy resolution, at this point just closure would be a relief to the family, i am sure.

[pamlet]

I don't see how commenting that if she hadn't gone to Aruba in the first place is holier than thou...

There are SO FEW fact that have come out on this - all anyone has to go on is what we observe .. therefore opinions are very subjective.

I feel it is a horror that could have been totally avoided - but it wasn't so it happened.

Also FACTS have not been distributed regarding anyone's involvement - just shaded inuendo - obviously they have SOMETHING that is keeping Joran in prison - but whatever the FACTS are - the judge has deemed that the brothers be let go.

[Li-Li]

I have recently signed on to FR. I have read every post here, sometimes over and over to remind myself of the truth as the old-timers here keep me informed. I wish to continue reading about Natalee and Beth and corrupt aruba. I suggest some of you go back to the night BH arrived in aruba. She went to the VDS home looking for NH (Remember MamaSloot was in Holland). PVDS said that Joran was at the casino. Ah, but he as not there. We know why, because word was out that Beth was on her way. The three criminals aided by the fourth heathen had either moved her or stiffled her moans and groans. Someone in LE had warned the VDS's. Now remember, when they arrived back at VDS home: There was JVDS and two culprits (Kalpoe's) leaning against the car owned by the culprits. This info which leads to corruption is Corruption in Aruba. Four are guilty. This has nothing to do with having fun or enjoying life as we ahould all have the chance. No one shall take another life-EVER. If you need more information, start with Thread 1. Please do not cause repeats.

[hummingbird]

I see. Thanks, TexKat. Was it near the hotel they were all staying at that the swimming was going on? Wonder what the tides were like that night, and, if it was Natalee, wonder if she was a good swimmer.

Of course, if she had been slipped one of those drugs, being an Olympic swimmer probably couldn't have helped.

I hate posting like this....too many "ifs" and good golly, don't even look at the grammar!

Guess that makes me a 'poster hater'...against myself!

[texasbluebell]

My instincts say Natalee is gone....and Joran knows what happened. UNLESS, he really is telling the truth and he just left her alone on the beach and something else happened to her. Natalees family knows something that makes them adament that Joran, PVDS and the Kalpoes are responsible, though. My inquisitive mind would love to know what that is!!

I know others have pointed this out too, but I'll do it as well.

If JvdS is telling the truth and knows nothing about what happened, why did his father tell J and the brothers on the very first day: No body, no crime.

There would have been absolutely no need for that legal advice unless those 3 were involved in her disappearance.

This is very damning, I think.

[over3Owithabrain]

I understand. Sadly, we may or may not get closure or a happy or even just ending. But we can hope. Being a public story though, along with concern for the mom is a desire of some of us to not be led down a primrose path out of mere sympathy or hype. She is going through hell and cannot be expected to be objective or totally reliable as an investigative tool. But again I join you in prayer for her and her child's safety and justice, xsm.

[spectre]

Natalee was well acquainted with Joran and the fact that he was a boy from a well to do, influencial island family. She knew he was graduating from an exclusive island HS and had been accepted to a college in Florida on a Tennis scholarship. Joran was a popular teenager and ran with the in-crowd on the island. He wasn't exactly a stranger in that sense of the word. Nor was he a last minute pickup at a bar.

Wouldn't most any girl have been attracted to this guy, or been flattered by his attention? Aruba or no Aruba? IOW's do you think he passed the smell test, if you can get past blaming Natalee for her poor judgment, as it turned out to be.

sw

[over3Owithabrain]

Please do not cause repeats.

LOL - your entire post is a repeat!

[varina davis]

I'm not at all sure they have much inside info. More likely trying to bluff the Aruba LE, etc. Don't blame them.

[over3Owithabrain]

You don't send a bunch of high-schoolers, particularly girls, off to a foreign island to live it up with little or no supervision. That is stupid, reckless, and in this case, probably deadly. Knowing a guy for a couple of days isn't the point.

[GarySpFc]

No offense, but posting from spurious websites, rehashing what Greta said or thinks, and translating Dutch rumors is not investigative work, nor is it cracking any case. It may be interesting, and fun, and a good way to let off steam from concern for Natalee and sympathy for her mom. It also feeds the cottage industry without changing a whit of what the people in power are actually doing. The argument has even been posited here that all the FNC meddling has made things worse, not better. I'm inclined to agree.

I would agree. Please don't take this as a know it all attitude. I have a doctorate degree, with a secondary in psychology. My wife is a psychologist. My mentor of 10 years had doctorates in law, psychology, literature, and two in theology. I KNOW WHAT IS AND IS NOT EVIDENCE. I also am more than a little familiar with the attributes of sociopaths. I do not accept as Gospel urban legends and rumors I see on websites, and but examine critically in detail what I see and hear.

[Dark Skies]

Relax and have some fun. There are some really bright people on this thread (excluding me, that is) and they have done some incredible sleuthing. If something turns up that is important to the case, yet not picked up the Keystone...I mean Aruba LE, you can't bet it will be brought to their attention, or at least to Beth's.

[Trust but Verify]

I didn't say she was out of control. I do not THINK she was out of control, but she was out of her league, as I would be in a country I know nothing about. That's why I don't throw caution to the wind and leave the relative safety of the resort, and the oversight of the chaperones.

Now you're going to get me in trouble for re-stating my position!

[TexKat]

Also, I thought at the conference they were going to tell us things we didn't know. Things that would shock us, and we'd be devastated.

Wrong place, wrong time. If I was going to do that I would have been doing it all along. Not wait until the assumed perps were released. There are other ways to deal with it. If Aruba is such a dangerous place, I think that that would have been a dangerous move. Perhaps the FBI talked with the Twittys regarding the matter.

We are not aware of exactly what type of people the Twittys are dealing with over there.

If you notice the FBI are playing their cards close to their chest.

[elli1]

Have any of the irate posters from other forums mentioned any of these 'sounter productive elements' in their posts, specifically?

Don't go around other forums much. Wasn't an irate poster. Wasn't about BH. The comments were about Geraldo's sarcasm in one of his Aruba street reports.

[over3Owithabrain]

Yeah - well I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night :)

jk - I'm sure you are bright and my post about rampant speculating wasn't meant to be directed to you alone, sorry.

[Dark Skies]

OOoops. Can't s/b can. Not bright and can't type. But I am qualified for a job at Aruba LE or emceeing the "bare your bootie contest" at C&C's.

[Trust but Verify]

You're picking nits. Fine. There are educated guesses, like the ones I posted, and then there is speculation, which you are very familiar with since that constitutes the majority of the activity here.