Minuteman rally brings out intense passions (Phoenix)

Sierra Vista Herald, Sierra Vista Arizona ^ | July 2, 2005 | Bill Hess

[SandRat]

PHOENIX - If anything could symbolize the tensions about border issues in Arizona, it was a line of police officers separating a man carrying the Mexican national banner from those who held high American flags on the capitol grounds.

On Friday, organizers and supporters of the Minuteman program held a rally, loudly touting their success in April when they brought volunteers to Cochise County, declaring the movement is growing throughout the nation and challenging politicians to either get aboard the fast moving train of people wanting the borders secured or face defeat in next year's elections.

But counter demonstrators were equally vocal, using words, drums and whistles in an attempt to drown out the Minuteman rally, calling the group and its supporters racists.

There was anger simmering between the two groups long before Andy Hernandez walked up with a Mexican flag.

That led 76-year-old Patrick Walsh to motor over to Hernandez in his scooter to ask him why he was carrying the flag of Mexico, questioning where the man's loyalty stood.

Hernandez, who calls himself a "Chicano nationalist," said he is a citizen of the United States, but because of the ill-treatment of Hispanics, "I'll go anywhere in the world to protect them."

Throughout U.S. history Hispanics have suffered discrimination, he added.

What people who live in the United States don't realize is that there is a growing number of Hispanics who are fed up with racist policies aimed at them, Hernandez said.

"You're lucky we don't fight against you like the Iraqis are fighting against you," he yelled at Minuteman rally supporters.

But, there were some Hispanics who supported the Minuteman program.

Marie Conlea said she is first and foremost an American, not a Mexican.

Al Rodriguez, a retired Army colonel and native of Douglas, said those who want to help the needy Mexicans who are fleeing their country for a better life should go after the Mexican federal government, including its president, because Mexico is an example of socialism gone wrong and is heavily corrupt.

Looking at the Mexican flag carried by Hernandez, the World War II and Vietnam combat veteran was dismissive saying "my flag is the American flag, I'm proud to call myself an American."

The words of Conlea and Rodriguez were greeted by loud cheers from those supporting the Minuteman program and equally as noisy "boos" from the counter demonstrators.

There were some "boos" from the Minuteman crowd, when Rodriguez mentioned three names - U.S. Sen. John McCain, and U.S. Representatives Jim Kolbe and Jeff Flake.

Hoping to knock Kolbe off in the 2006 Republican primary is Randy Graf, who attempted to win the party's nomination in 2004.

Speaking at the rally, Graf said controlling the border is a must and the key issue for him.

"I'm going to go to Washington, D.C. and get the job done for you," he said.

Also speaking were Jim Gilchrist and Chris Simcox, who organized the April event and now are out doing other organizing.

When Gilchrist began to speak, a rally protester told him to go back to California.

Gilchrist responded he had more of a right to be in Arizona than illegal immigrants, a line that drew applause.

To him, those who are in opposition to the Minuteman program are communists.

The anti-rally demonstrators contend the Minuteman program is a fascist group.

Gilchrist said he is tired of the ineptness of politicians.

"It's a sad day in America, lawmakers siding with lawbreakers against law-abiding Americans," he said.

Those piloting the plane of state have to be changed, and that will only be done by the passengers, the American people taking over the cockpit, Gilchrist said.

Simcox promised a continued effort in building support so that not only politicians will get the message but those who support the actions of illegal immigrants will too.

The rally began with a prayer, which was almost drowned out by the counter demonstrators.

When a young boy began to lead the rally supporters in singing the national anthem, some of the rally protesters booed.

Surprisingly those who booed where whites, supporting the counter demonstration.

However, when the national anthem was sung, two Hispanic teens in the anti-rally protest group removed their hats and placed them over their hearts, as they too sang.

David Rubi said the issue is too heated and it is hard to find logical discourse between the different views.

A college professor, he tried to keep the lid on emotions in the counter demonstration group. What those who are supporting the Minuteman program do not understand is America's history, where different immigrant groups were made scapegoats, Rubi said.

The words of today's Minuteman supporters are similar to those used by the Confederates, the Ku Klux Klan and the Know Nothing Party, to support their views, he said.

Everybody agrees workers are needed, but Congress has been remiss in addressing the issue and that has led to the flow of immigrants crossing the border illegally to heat up, Rubi said.

By time the rally, which drew slightly more than 200 supporters, began and the counter demonstration started with nearly 50 protesters, it was hot - Phoenix's temperature was well into the 100s. By the time law enforcement and media representatives were added to the count, more than 300 people wandered around the capitol grounds.

What was interesting during the rally and counter demonstration was that the large-winged woman weather vane on the capitol's dome prophetically had her back to the crowd below.

Equally prophetic was that south of the police line was where the man who carried the Mexican flag was kept, while north of the line was where the American flags were held.

An elderly man, a supporter of the Minuteman program, approached a Hispanic teen, who was part of the counter demonstration.

The man asked the teen if he spoke English.

Politely, the teen said yes, and than asked the man if he spoke Spanish.

The man walked off without answering.

[SandRat]

Interesting the left is all for free speech but if they don't agree with it they do everything they can to silence or drown out the speech they don't agree with.

This story was not covered in the morning Tucson or the morning Phoenx papers.

[SandRat]

Ping for the Border issue.

[marmar]

hernandez has what is called a victim mentality.

[Politicalities]

David Rubi said the issue is too heated and it is hard to find logical discourse between the different views. A college professor, he tried to keep the lid on emotions in the counter demonstration group. What those who are supporting the Minuteman program do not understand is America's history, where different immigrant groups were made scapegoats, Rubi said. The words of today's Minuteman supporters are similar to those used by the Confederates, the Ku Klux Klan and the Know Nothing Party, to support their views, he said.

For crying out loud. Does this man -- all too representative of the modern college professor, I might add -- listen to himself?

"There's not enough logical discourse between these two groups. Also, the other guys are Klansmen, Confederates, racists, ignorant of history, and probably Nazis. Neener neener neener. Booger."

[SandRat]

Sounds like you've been reading the book "One Nation Under Therapy."

[SandRat]

No he doesn't because in what he calls a mind he's right because he's enlightened as a "professor."

[Brilliant]

"A college professor, he tried to keep the lid on emotions in the counter demonstration group. What those who are supporting the Minuteman program do not understand is America's history, where different immigrant groups were made scapegoats, Rubi said..."

In present day America, it is the WASP who is made the scapegoat, and Rubi is one of the leaders of that movement.

[pure_capitalist]

"Government must defend us against INVASION by others"
-U.S. Constitution, Article IV, Section 4.

"It is a sad day in America when the law-makers side with the law-breakers against the law-abiding." Ezola Foster - (VP candidate - 2000)

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man, hated and scorned. When the cause succeeds, however, the timid join him...for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
-Mark Twain

"While we slept, the United States was stolen."
- author unknown

http://www.minutemanhq.com

[CharlieChan]

It's too bad there's no video on this.

Moving pictures of the illegal advocates doing their things would make great copy.

A collection of such videos on such events would be a good basis for a factual documentary that might help American couch-potatoes to at least get up--- and yell out their windows.

[Hugin]

When a young boy began to lead the rally supporters in singing the national anthem, some of the rally protesters booed.

Surprisingly those who booed where whites, supporting the counter demonstration.

Why surprisingly? The left is mostly white, and hates America. But don't question their patriotism.

[GhostofWCooper]

"Politely, the teen said yes, and than asked the man if he spoke Spanish."

That would be pithy except for one thing.

He wasn't in Spain. (or Mexico)

[SandRat]

I hope that some of those there have video of it all and lots of digital pictures.

[popdonnelly]

Can we please control our borders? Is that too much for some people on the Left? Well, too bad.

[moog]

Interesting the left is all for free speech but if they don't agree with it they do everything they can to silence or drown out the speech they don't agree with.

It's getting that way on all sides.

[SandRat]

Can we please control our borders? Is that too much for some people on the Left?

YEP!

They can't bring about a Marxist/Leninist workers Paradise if we do.

[moog]

I hope that some of those there have video of it all and lots of digital pictures.

I almost think that these will become like the old KKK protests. I'm not EVEN saying that the Minutemen are like the KKK. I pretty much support their cause. I'm saying that the conditions might become as such.

[dljordan]

"I'd love to see those "white" people who booed the National Anthem SHOT! "

Would you like to do it? And would that be before or after a fair trial. Booing the National Anthem is not a crime and you really wouldn't want to live in a nation where it is.

[HiJinx]

David Rubi said the issue is too heated and it is hard to find logical discourse between the different views.

A college professor, he tried to keep the lid on emotions in the counter demonstration group. What those who are supporting the Minuteman program do not understand is America's history, where different immigrant groups were made scapegoats, Rubi said.

I'm sorry, Professor Rubi, you're living in the past. The illegal aliens crossing the border now are not your noble vaunted immigrants of a hundred years ago. Wake up, Paisano.

[William Terrell]

"Politely, the teen said yes, and than asked the man if he spoke Spanish."

"I shouldn't need to. I'm in my own country."

If the man had said that, this exchange wouldn't have been mentioned.