Posted on 07/01/2005 9:55:00 AM PDT by Rhadaghast
May 11, 2005 Host: Vic Eliason Topic: False Doctrine Guest: David DiCanio Description: Dr. David DiCanio is Pastor of Columbine Free Presbyterian Church in Columbine, Colorado, and is involved in Christian Media, which produces television-style documentaries on religious trends and movements. Vic Eliason presents two audio cuts. One features Robert Schuller being interviewed by Dr. David DiCanio after giving a keynote address at the 2004 National Association of Evangelicals meeting. The other cut features Robert Schuller interviewing Billy Graham. The two discuss their views concerning how people are saved.
Dr. DiCanio interacts with callers to discuss the opinions expressed by Schuller and Graham and the current move of some leaders in Christianity to preach a gospel that teaches salvation apart from a conscious, biblical awareness of Christ as the only way to God.
Contact Info: info@thechristianmedia.com www.thechristianmedia.com
Rare recordings of great preachers of the past are posted by Dr. DiCanio's church at
http://www.sermonaudio.com/columbine Listen: RealAudio Windows Media
I won't quote you.
Thanks Theo, you are absolutely right, great verse too.
I would not presume to say what Mr. Graham "should have said". His credentials as a Christian must certainly be greater than mine. I think that if you take all his words completely in context with each other, as one complete conversation, I think he was not disagreeing with you.
He just did not say it the way you wanted to hear it. I think he and others are actually talking exactly about that issue.
He is talking about God and faith and the honest and actual spiritual experience of people who know themselves as seekers of God - as opposed to an intellectual disposition about God - and you are talking about religion.
People. This is a good thread with good discussion.
Please keep it edifying.
Question each other in love.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life."
"No one gets to the Father, but through me."
Read the excerpt provided above. Mr. Graham is talking about folks who've never even heard of the Bible, much less Jesus Christ. Are you saying they're going to hell? Is that up to you to decide?
I can find no way to fit into this Gospel the ability to be saved without knowing it. Questionable (IMHO) interpretations of single-line verses that suggest loopholes in the above-defined gospel can not be made equivalent to that Gospel.
Well, I for one am not willing to state that Abraham wasn't saved because he didn't know Christ, and I'm likewise unwilling to consign to hell those alive today who've never heard His name. That's not my job, nor is it yours.
The Gospel that I understand is about willfully accepting Jesus Christ as your saviour, acknowledging His death, burial, and resurrection, confessing one's sins, repenting of one's evil ways, and being baptized for the remission of one's sins.
I agree with you. We have heard His name, and have made our choice to follow Him. I'm perfectly happy to help others do the same. But I'm not willing to guess the fate of good people who have not heard His name.
We don't need that kind of stuff. Abuse hit.
I'm sorry, but you missed my point, entirely.
"Earned" is your term, not theirs and they would disagree that they can "earn" "salvation". They can seek God, honestly and fully and the rest is up to God, not how much or how well they "perform" something.
Their statements of faith are not a "if you do it my way you are saved and if not you are damned". They are statments of a simple faith that you must have if you are truly seeking God, and if that faith and that seeking is true that your life is and will reflect that - period. "Your life will reflect that" period, end of statement. "Salvation" is by God's determination, not theirs (no matter "how good" they are) and not YOURS; is what they would tell you.
Now you of course would say they are missing the "acceptance of Jesus" part and no matter how true and strong is their faith in God, they are missing what salvation requires. They do not argue that their "works" "earn" them salvation; they leave that to God.
If you carefully read what Paul said to the devout Jews that felt compelled to remain devout Jews, they are doing, living, as Paul said they should. They keep to the law and the traditions and faith founded on the law, and in doing so they live according to the spirit of the law, which is the word, which is the Son from the beginning. The rest is in God's grace.
The truth is not abuse.. or should not be..
Following your logic, the 40 million or so aborted babies in this country over the last few decades are all in hell.
....there is NO WAY that our loving GOD would have this happen!....NO WAY!
I do not think that is what he said, if you read all, ALL the statements together and in context with each other.
Come to think of it, isn't that what happened to Paul?
Actually, it's all been organized for years via National Council of Churches.
Hillary Clinton in Evangelical Outreach Check out the data in the thread.
"bookmark". I use it as a self-ping: A thread I wish to study.
People have been biting at Graham for decades. "Too ecumenical...Too inclusionary...Too this...Too that." Frankly, Billy Graham towers over everyone else in the past half century of Christian history. Both you and I both will never measure up to his contributions to the Kingdom of God.
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