US offers (India) training on aircraft carrier and presence in Pacific

Indian Express ^ | 26-5-05 | SHISHIR GUPTA

[sukhoi-30mki]

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=68255

US offers to train Indian Navy for Adm Gorshkov

MANOJ K. DAS

KOCHI, APRIL 12: The US has offered to train Indian naval pilots in complex carrier-based operations to ready them for operating from INS Vikramaditya — formerly Admiral Gorshkov — which will reach India by 2007-08.

The offer has come as a surprise as no US hardware is on the Navy’s radar. India has no plans to immediately acquire any US naval system as the country is planning a bouquet of Russian MiG-29Ks and Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) on all future floating platforms. In fact, the Air Defence Ship (ADS) being built in Kochi has been designed to operate MiG-29Ks and UK-made Sea Harriers along with the LCAs.

The US offer, sources said, was made during the recent visit of Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Arun Prakash. The Navy, however, has not fully finalised the module and pattern of deployment. Sources said future aviators who will operate on aircraft carriers have been shortlisted. ‘‘We have identified pilots who will fly from Gorshkov. Another generation will inherit this training by the time the ADS is ready by 2012. A training module in Russia will begin later this year or in early 2006,’’ sources said.

The pilots will be first trained from a shore-based Russian facility complete with advanced feature called ‘sea jump’. This mount, that gives any modern carrier its silhouette signature, adds to the thrust when an aircraft scrambles off. ‘‘The facility has landing strip fitted with arrestor wires. It will give our pilots real-time experience in meeting challenges posed by carrier-based operations,’’ the sources added.

The training will then shift to INS Vikramaditya by the time its refitting is done.

Confirming the US offer, Admiral Arun Prakash said the Navy was mulling over it. ‘‘We’re looking into it. But there is no talk about any aircraft procurement from US,’’ he said.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Ping!!

[voletti]

Sounds good.

Growing chinese power is threatening ASEAN nations. Japan , Taiwan, S Korea and Singapore already recognise this threat and have hence warmed upto America.

India fits in as a long-term countervailing presence in the Indian ocean area, methinks.

[SampleMan]

This is the first I've read about the INS Vikramaditya having a catapult. All the concepts that I've seen have a restraining device and a 14 degree ski jump. Does anyone know if the catapult inclusion is real, or just a journalistic mistake. Of course it will have arresting gear.

I wonder if the Indians wouldn't be interested in a real fleet carrier, such as the JFK or Kitty Hawk when we decommission those.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Well-same for me too!!Though I must add that a lot of Russian articles about the Gorshkov's refit keeping talking about a catapult .May probably be a mistake given that it would be a significant technical challenge.

Any navy would love to buy an American carrier(even if it's 40 years old),provided that they get a half a dozen escorts & auxillary ships along with the airgroup free of cost!!!!

[PokeyJoe]

yeah... give the Indians the JFK. I bet the mess could serve up some mean tandori chicken.

[SampleMan]

Who said "give"? I'd sell it to them. The MiG-29's don't have catapult capability though, so they would have to be redesigned or the IN could purchase some FA-18's, E-2's, S-3's, A-7's, F-14's, A-6's, or even A-4's. All from the bone yard.

They would definately have an advantage on the PLAN, and for that matter most every other Navy in the world, not to mention a good solid stick against all of the Jihadists in the Indian Ocean.

[dervish]

Thanks for the ping.

Does US training on Russian equipment make sense?

[atlanta67]

Again...surround China.

Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, India

[sukhoi-30mki]

Well the lines between Western & Eastern weaponry have been blurred since the end of the coldwar,with Russian systems being adapted to carry Western equipment.Besides,what matters is how you use the equipment.Most of the training will probably be on operational tactics than about the platforms themselves.

[sukhoi-30mki]

The F/A-18 would be too expensive & besides the Mig-29 is already in service with the Indian Airforce.Modifying the Mig-29K for a catapult take off or ski-jump from a 350 metre deck US carrier will be more economical.

[SampleMan]

Well, I didn't want to leave the FA-18 out, but I concur about cost as far as new production is concerned. I think the bone yard could offer up some bargains for the IN though, as far as support aircraft go.

Realistically, you can't think of the flight deck as being 350 meters long. Using it in this fashion would limit you to operating just a handful of aircraft. The problem with the ski-jump/hold back method is that it won't work for support aircraft with lower power to weight ratios.

At least one catapult would allow a far greater capability. Granted any aircraft carrier is a budgetary stretch for the IN.

[PokeyJoe]

I dunno. We are gonna need those bone yard aircraft ourselves when we go to war with China.

[Armedanddangerous]

I agree. We are going to need that Indian Navy battlegroup to watch our six when China goes after Taiwan in a few years. So it makes sense to buddy up with them.

[The_Reader_David]

Um, that's (one of) the point(s) of selling the stuff to India. Geopolitical considerations make India a completely reliable ally against both the jihad and China. No need to refurbish the 'bone yard' stuff when war hits: it will already be up and running, in theater, in the hands of an ally.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Well Im not sure that I'll see Indian & Chinese carriers in each other's backyard atleast for the next 10 years.The resources for both are pretty stretched & any over ambition would be plain suicidal.

Your right about the flightdeck space.I think any non-American carrier will face that problem,esp with regard to a large number of defensive equipment or as with Russian carriers,anti-ship missiles.

[Cronos]

The SKoreans aren't to be trusted in that alliance -- they WILL stay neutral (Korea's been in China's orbit for centuries). The ones to Trust are Japan, India, Vietnam, Russia -- all historic rivals of China. probably we could swing the Aussies too.

[SampleMan]

Well, here's my two-cents on alliances.

SK - I think you are right. There is no way they would ally against China. Despite the fact that the Chinese are a close second to Japan on the massively despised list.

Japan - Maybe. They could be intimidated by China, but they are getting very nervous about Chinese power.

India - Best bet. They don't want to see China become too dominant in SE or central Asia. Yet India would likely wait until they were forced to chose, something that might never happen in a Taiwan showdown.

Vietnam - Well, they don't like the Chinese, but that doesn't make them trustworthy allies.

Russia - Logically, the Russians would be a yes, but I think they would stay firmly neutral, hoping that the U.S. and China would both come out of a war weakened.

Australia - Probably a good bet. Australia is awakening to the concept that they are all alone in that part of the world and Indonesia is a potentially turbulent Jihad factory. That has created a desire for a strong alliance with the USA. New Zealand is worthless. They've determined that they will be the last country on earth to be invaded and relegated themselves to whatever fate comes. Thus, they've decided that their egos are far better served by preaching pacifism than fighting with the rest of the free peoples.

Alliances are fickle things. I was having a conversation with a Swede once, and being told how smart Sweden was during WWII. I asked her if the decision would have been as smart if the allies had lost, and whether or not Sweden wasn't part of Hitler's Greater Reich. She was dumbfounded, it was clear she'd never considered that outcome. The movie High Noon is a wonderful lesson in alliances.

[Rebelbase]

Hey, don't forget about New Zealand's naval might!


/sarcasm.

[freedumb2003]

The movie High Noon is a wonderful lesson in alliances.

It should be required viewing for every school child (around 10 or 11 yo) and cerainly every member of the UN.