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ARE THEY IN THE ARMY NOW? Cries of shortfall, exhaustion, and overstretch
National Review ^ | 7/4/05 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 06/25/2005 10:10:21 AM PDT by StoneGiant

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A lucid assessment you probably won’t see on the mainstream media….
1 posted on 06/25/2005 10:10:22 AM PDT by StoneGiant
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To: StoneGiant

"An Army Of One" is to blame for a lot of this stupidity. "Be All You Can Be" was a lot more effective.


2 posted on 06/25/2005 10:11:21 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: StoneGiant

I like his essays, but they'd have more impact if they were about one-third or one-half as long. Other great writers seem to be able to say as much or more in a lot less space.


3 posted on 06/25/2005 10:21:56 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: StoneGiant
The problem with the low army recruitment failure, is the non-use of the air force. Use our air power to bomb these people into submission, and allow the ground troops to mop up the little resistance left. If we had used the same tactics we are using now, in the Germany of '46, we would still be losing men.

Why aren't those caught engaging in the "insurgency" put to immediate death? War is hell, but we are acting like a police force not an army. To win a war against overwhelming savagery, we must unleash the dogs.

4 posted on 06/25/2005 10:23:41 AM PDT by jeremiah (Patrick Henry said it best, give me liberty or give me death.)
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To: Spktyr

One more point. We are getting such awful non-coverage of what we are doing in Iraq that I think it is fair to ask what it is Americans have to support, car bombings?.


5 posted on 06/25/2005 10:24:49 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: StoneGiant; Tolik; King Prout

bump & pings


6 posted on 06/25/2005 10:31:24 AM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: StoneGiant

All wars will shake out miitary forces especially National Guard and Reserve units. In peacetime these forces are rarely stressed. One weekend a month and one two week a summer will not stress the soldiers and their families. A war like Iraq where units are deployed and cycled for 6 month stints will shake out who is there for a check and who truly understands what military service means. It would be interesting to interview National Guard/Reserve soldiers who re enlist. You will find that they will repreent the core cadre of a new future Guard/Reserve force. The two years have shaken out the sunshine patriots and only the true veterans are left. As a side note, several weeks ago 100 insurgents attacked a 40 men police barracks in Baya suburbs of Baghdad. The battle could have been a diseaster for our side, because the two guards fell asleep when the attack started in the early hours (rest of the garrison was asleep). The nearby Iraqi Army unit summoned to rescue the police was also pinned down during the well coordinated attack. The police were on their own. The barrack was raked by RPG and small arms, and rammed by cars packed with explosives. If this happened two years ago, the Iraqi police would have surrendered or worst turn their weapons over to the insurgents and fled. Instead they fought on till the next morning when relief forces broke through. The insurgents lost 12 KIA and forced to retreat leaving 20 wounded behind. The Iraqi free forces are going through the same shake out process. The ones fighting for pay have left, and the ones who are fighting for a purpose stayed. Today these Iraqi veterans are forming the core of a new effective Iraqi force that can go toe to toe with the Sunni insurgents lead by seasoned and military trained former Saddam officers. The insurgent attacks have killed too many innocent Sunni, Shiites and Kurdish civilians. In the early days of the US occupation, these groups stood on the side line letting the US do all the heavy work and waiting to see what will happen. Now the war is personal. Many Americans do not realize the Iraqi forces is also a volunteer Army. I spoke with a buddy of mind who is serving in Iraq, and he tells me that there is no shortage of Iraqi recruits. The people supporting us in Iraq are voting with their feet. They are not sending their wealth overseas, have a packed bag and US visa by their door. They are kissing their love ones goodbye and heading to the recruiting station. The only people talking about quiting is the American people.


8 posted on 06/25/2005 10:35:05 AM PDT by Fee (Great powers never let minor allies dictate who, where and when they must fight.)
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To: StoneGiant

When September rolls around and recent high school graduates cant get the required funding to pursue college work or maybe for lack of work prospects, then those Army TV spots will be very powerful attractors.

If recruiters were smart they would do their work in the months of September to January.


9 posted on 06/25/2005 10:35:47 AM PDT by nairBResal
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To: 68skylark

so he doesn't do soundbites.
*shrugs*
one of his strengths is the way he lays it all out, forming a strong argument which is difficult to naysay or counterargue.


10 posted on 06/25/2005 10:37:29 AM PDT by King Prout (I'd say I missed ya, but that'd be untrue... I NEVER MISS)
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To: Fee

"The insurgent attacks have killed too many innocent Sunni, Shiites and Kurdish civilians."

I have maintained for a long time that these terrorists do not have popular support and will not win. They have pissed off alot of Iraqis who, as patriots, have volunteered to serve their country.

Your last sentence: "The only people talking about quiting is the American people". It's a good thing we re-elected Bush. The job will get done with him in office.


11 posted on 06/25/2005 10:44:31 AM PDT by wingman1 (University of Vietnam 1970)
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To: Fee

Interesting points. Is the force better with the "I only signed for one weekend a month and college money" folks gone?


12 posted on 06/25/2005 11:09:34 AM PDT by Wristpin ( Varitek says to A-Rod: "We don't throw at .260 hitters.....")
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To: StoneGiant
I agree with VDH. I have already expressed concern that we are, as of now, completely unable (more accurately, unwilling) to take on the next two "targets" that need to be dealt with, Iran and Syria. I think even if we wrapped up Iraq in the next year, there would be no popular sentiment for doing what really needs to be done, and that is finishing the job of rooting out these islamofascistic empires.

Like all free people, we have to learn the hard way. Rome had to fight three wars with Carthage before finally saying, "enough" and wiping them off the map.

13 posted on 06/25/2005 11:28:57 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: Fee

Good analysis. I'm hearing the same things from my former students who are now officers and servicemen in Iraq. No, the Iraqi forces aren't perfect (may I remind Freepers that the American units at Kasserine were horrible?), but they are improving and within two years will be able to crush any suicidal jeeee-hadists that come at them.


14 posted on 06/25/2005 11:31:24 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: Wristpin

Yes, it is. But I would add that the Army has learned that people serve a lot longer if they get the field they want---armor, air, propaganda, whatever. (West Point did this and traded additional time in service for a guarantee of field, and got 52 additional service years in a single signup). A soldier who feels well-placed and well-used is an effective soldier.


15 posted on 06/25/2005 11:33:05 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: StoneGiant
"In other words, when the population was just 70 percent of our current size, the armed forces sustained troop levels 1.3 times larger than our present military."

Yes, and we did it with a predominately male military where the army had a large number of conscripted soldiers...just as the Koreans and Israeli armies continue to do.

16 posted on 06/25/2005 2:02:32 PM PDT by Meldrim
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To: LS

Enlisted soldiers already get the field they want, assuming they qualify.


17 posted on 06/25/2005 2:04:02 PM PDT by Meldrim
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read later - VDH bump


18 posted on 06/25/2005 2:04:11 PM PDT by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: Fee
"All wars will shake out miitary forces especially National Guard and Reserve units"

When General Abrams designed the reserve forces such that we could no longer go to war without the reserves, the assumption was we'd resume the draft in the event of a prolonged war. To paraphrase Ronald Reagan, in wartime the draft is a necessity.

19 posted on 06/25/2005 2:06:26 PM PDT by Meldrim
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To: Fee
The only people talking about quiting is the American people.

No. The only people talking about quitting are the fifth column of commie Democrats seeking political gain from defeat aboroad, their shills in the press, and a handful of "Republican" kooks (Hagel) or RINOS.

The decadent political class living in the MSM echo chamber of DC will crack long before the American people do.

Bush needs to go out over their heads directly to the American people and go back to DC and kick their a$$es.

20 posted on 06/25/2005 4:15:13 PM PDT by pierrem15
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