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Cruel and Unusual -Terri
NY Times ^ | 6/23/05 | Bob Herbert

Posted on 06/22/2005 8:06:02 PM PDT by Tumbleweed_Connection

"Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?" asked Joseph Welch in his famous confrontation with the pathologically cruel Joe McCarthy. "Have you left no sense of decency?"

More than a half-century later, I would ask the same question of Florida's governor, Jeb Bush.

In an abuse of power that has been widely denounced, and has even appalled many of his own supporters in the Republican Party, Governor Bush has tried to keep the Terri Schiavo circus alive by sending state prosecutors on a witch hunt against her husband, Michael.

The state attorney who has been pushed by the governor into pursuing this case told me yesterday he has seen nothing to indicate that a crime was committed. Nevertheless, the inquiry continues.

Governor Bush asked Bernie McCabe, the state attorney for Pinellas County, to "take a fresh look" at this already exhaustively investigated case to determine, among other things, whether Michael Schiavo had perhaps waited too long to call for help after discovering that his wife had collapsed early one morning 15 years ago.

Mr. McCabe did not seem particularly enthusiastic about his mission. "I wouldn't call it an investigation," he told me in a telephone conversation. The word "investigation," he said, "is a term of art in my business."

He then explained: "When I conduct an investigation, it would mean that I have a criminal predicate. In other words, that I have some indication that a crime has occurred. That's my job...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: falseaccusers; feminists; manhaters; news; pantload; taxwaste; terrischiavo; wackjobs
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To: Tribune7

"They weren't allowed to give her water once the judge ordered the tubes removed."

From your wording do you mean to imply that they WERE allowed to give her water before the order ?


181 posted on 06/23/2005 3:03:30 PM PDT by RS (Just because they are out to get him, it doesn't mean he's not guilty.)
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To: eleni121

"All the facts in the case and MS's actions demonstrate that Schiavo had absolutely no right to end his wife's life. She was in no way at the end of her life...she was a living breathing human being. She was not suffering from a fatal illness - and cancer was not ravaging her body. She was ravaged by the withholding of food and drink in her last days. "

Oh, one little fact I forgot to mention. She didn't have a cerebral cortex; it was mush. Minor detail.


182 posted on 06/23/2005 3:03:31 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: flaglady47

NO matter what the condition of her brain or how it got that way - you don't deliberately kill someone so inhumanely.

We treat our animals better than that.


183 posted on 06/23/2005 3:09:07 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: RS
From your wording do you mean to imply that they WERE allowed to give her water before the order ?

The order stopped the water.

184 posted on 06/23/2005 3:09:11 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: eleni121

"NO matter what the condition of her brain or how it got that way - you don't deliberately kill someone so inhumanely.

We treat our animals better than that."

You Schiavo supporters keep using that line, that animals are treated more humanely. If a dog or cat or pig or cow was lying somewhere with it's brain gone, it would be immediately taken to the pound and euthanized. How many braindead dogs and cats do you see lying around in the general population. Any?


185 posted on 06/23/2005 3:14:34 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: HairOfTheDog
No one thought she could survive on oral water . . .

Actually, some thought she could, like her family. But if she couldn't then it wouldn't have made a bit of difference whether she got it -- not to her or to Michael since he would have kept the promise he claimed to have made.

If it were just an exercise in futility why not let it happen? Would you have preferred the press conferences? But against all reason, Mrs. Schindler was kept by force from giving her daughter water or wetting her lips.

I'm sorry you can't see that.

I cannot buy your claim the water that the water was kept from Terri to avoid a circus. The only reasons that make sense are premediated cruelty or a fear she would be kept alive.

186 posted on 06/23/2005 3:18:17 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: I still care
Not only Mark Fuhrman but also the ME that did the autopsy.
187 posted on 06/23/2005 3:23:55 PM PDT by Freedom Dignity n Honor (There are permanent moral truths.)
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To: flaglady47

You have answered your own question but fail to realize it.

Animals are not humans. Our legal system recognizes humans as legal entities with rights derived from a long legal evolution based upon a Judaeo Christian Greco Roman tradition.

In fact Ms Schiavo had legal living relatives who wanted to care for her. If I had a dog who was brain dead and I wanted to take care of my dog, I cannot imagine any judge coming in and forcing me to kill it.


188 posted on 06/23/2005 3:24:17 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121

"If I had a dog who was brain dead and I wanted to take care of my dog, I cannot imagine any judge coming in and forcing me to kill it."

He wouldn't have to. The animal would start to smell pretty bad in short order. What would you be doing as it defecates and urinates 2 or 3 times a day? How long before you would take it to the pound to be euthanized. But you'll come up with some cock and bull response, I'm sure.

Animals are not humans, you say. Yet you also said that animals are treated better than humans. If an animal was in the same state as Terri was, it would be euthanized at the pound. That's a fact. There is no better treatment; it would be worse, and the animal would be put away immediately.


189 posted on 06/23/2005 3:50:02 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: flaglady47

Sorry, you are all over the place...better luck next time.


190 posted on 06/23/2005 3:52:00 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121

LOL. Got ya.


191 posted on 06/23/2005 4:00:48 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: malakhi

You are such a treasure. One of those increasingly rare sparks of common sense and sanity in a sea of ooze.

Thanks.


192 posted on 06/23/2005 4:05:09 PM PDT by cyncooper
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To: HairOfTheDog

I so appreciate your compassion and eloquence.


193 posted on 06/23/2005 4:25:05 PM PDT by cyncooper
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To: flaglady47

I've been appreciating your posts. Thanks.


194 posted on 06/23/2005 4:27:01 PM PDT by cyncooper
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To: cyncooper

"I've been appreciating your posts. Thanks."

Your most welcome.


195 posted on 06/23/2005 4:33:10 PM PDT by flaglady47
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To: Tribune7
Actually, some thought she could, like her family.

OK - I should have said no one who had a grasp on reality.

If it were just an exercise in futility why not let it happen?

Because drowning her is not a good solution to a parent's irrational and desperate ~want~ to do something. Occasionally the grownups have to step in and say "No... it's not appropriate".

I cannot buy your claim the water that the water was kept from Terri to avoid a circus.

That's because you're part of the circus. You don't realize how preposterous it is.

196 posted on 06/23/2005 5:13:44 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: cyncooper

~thank you~

Glad to know I make sense to someone ;~D


197 posted on 06/23/2005 5:14:44 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: muawiyah
Hmmm ~ sounds like you didn't attend enough Sunday school in your youth.

As a Jew, I'm guessing my 'Sunday school' was a little different than yours. Far different, if yours didn't include the commandment against bearing false witness.

198 posted on 06/23/2005 6:49:01 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: cyncooper

Thank you, cyn.


199 posted on 06/23/2005 6:52:48 PM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi
Look, nothing keeps Jews from attending Sunday School and learning something about the other guys. Vice versa goes on too. I'm surprised you didn't educate yourself, but then again, some folks like to hide in little cultural culdesacs and toss invective to the outside world.

BTW, odds are if you attended a few adult classes at a Methodist Church NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, would ever attempt to proselytize (so you would be safe).

200 posted on 06/23/2005 6:53:30 PM PDT by muawiyah (q)
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