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The "Wall of Separation..." letter by Jefferson...(Rare Newspaper)
AURORA GENERAL ADVERTISER ^ | Monday February 1, 1802

Posted on 06/22/2005 2:30:43 PM PDT by fight_truth_decay

AURORA GENERAL ADVERTISER, Philadelphia, February 1, 1802 This issue contains on page 2 a contemporary newspaper printing of the famous Thomas Jefferson letter to the Danbury Baptist Association regarding the separation of church and state, reading in part:

"...believing with you that religion is a matter which lies soley between Man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith of his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof', thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties..." with more.

The GENERAL ADVERTISER was a leading Jeffersonian newspaper in America & it seems likely the text of the letter was submitted by Jefferson himself. Indeed, Jefferson intended the letter (a reply to the Association's congratulations on his election) to be a political statement. After this and only one other known newspaper printing the text of the letter was not published until 1853 in a collected edition of Jefferson's writings. The phrase "wall of separation between Church & State" remains to this day a controversial statement and is among the more notable utterances of the 19th century.

The issue is complete in 4 pages, has a professional archival mend near the top of page 2, not close to the Jefferson letter, and is otherwise in very nice condition. An identical issue of this same newspaper recently sold in a New York auction gallery for $10,350.

$9,750.00



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Government
KEYWORDS: church; danburybaptist; jefferson; news; state; thomasjefferson
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To: Mylo
"Jefferson denied the divinity of Christ and said that the notion of his virgin birth would some day be classified with the notion of Minerva coming from the brain of Zeus. Yeah, but other than THAT, he was a Christian."

Yes, he was, by his own profession. I stated also he was a Unitarian christian. Unitarian Christians (not unitarian universalists, a big difference) do not believe in the divinity of Christ. They do not believe in the Trinity. But they are Christians much like those who lived 300 years before the Catholic church was established. They followed Christ and spread the Gospels.

Jefferson also referred to himself as a rational Christian. But he was a disciple of Christ and hoped that the entire world could one day be Christian.

 

"My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions.  To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus Himself. I am Christian in the only sense He wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others..."
                             -- Thomas Jefferson, April 21 1803 to Benjamin Rush

"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am real Christian; that is to say a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
                             -- Thomas Jefferson, Jan 9, 1816 letter to Charles Thomson. 

"I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by Himself, to be the most pure, benevolent and sublime which have ever been preached to men..." 
                            -- Thomas Jefferson
, Nov 4, 1820 letter to Jared Sparks

"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to me  so pure as that of Jesus."                             -- Thomas Jefferson, Writings, Vol XIII pg 377


"Had the doctrines of Jesus always been preached always as pure as they came from His lips the whole civilized world would now have been Christians."
                            -- Thomas Jefferson
.
Tyron Edwards New Dictionary of Thoughts- A Cyclopaedia of Quotations (1852) p.91

"I have always said, I always will say, that the studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands."
                   
        -- Thomas Jefferson. Tyron Edwards New Dictionary of Thoughts- A Cyclopaedia of Quotations (1852) p.46

  1. The doctrines of Jesus are simple and tend to the happiness of man.
  2. There is only One God and He is all perfect.
  3. There is a future state of rewards and punishment.
  4. To love God with all the heart and thy neighbor as thyself is the sum of all.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Life of Jefferson, by Stephen Abbot Northropp pp252-253

"No one sees with greater pleasure than myself  the progress of reason and its advance towards rational Christianity, and my opinion is that if nothing had ever been added to what flowed from His lips, the whole world would at this day been Christian.... Had there never been a commentor there never would have been an infidel.  I have little doubt that the whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator, and, I hope, to the pure doctrines of Jesus also." 
                            -- Thomas Jefferson
Library of American Literature, Vol III pp 283-284 Stephen Abbot Northrop

"The Christian Religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity to its benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind."
                             -- Thomas Jefferson, Mar 23rd, 1801 letter to Moses Robinson



21 posted on 06/22/2005 3:23:24 PM PDT by Mark Felton ("I am a real Christian...a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: D Rider
"That brings abortion to mind."

That and SO many others...We are socialistic now and I fear there is no hope of regaining the original intent at the voting booth...it was a nice idea while it lasted, though.

22 posted on 06/22/2005 3:23:35 PM PDT by gorush (Exterminate the Moops!)
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To: Mylo

Most history books written in the past 40 years have taken great pains to expurge the influence of Christianity on the founding fathers.

Few people today know that John Leland used to be considered one of the top 5 most important founding fathers. Why? He fought and won the Bill of Rights for the Constitution. Madison refused to insert a BoR until Baptist Preacher John Leland "forced" him to include it by running against him in Orange county and acquiring sufficient votes to win. lelalnd wrote a letter of 10 points on which to establish a Bill of Rights, the most important of which was freedom of religion, and promised to back out of the race and throw his votes to Madison if Madison promised to include the BoR in the Constitution.

A Baptist preacher is singularly most responsible for freedom of religion in the USA.

The notion that Christians would create a theocracy is simple nonsense. Protestants used to have 100% control over the US and they wrote the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.


23 posted on 06/22/2005 3:31:26 PM PDT by Mark Felton ("I am a real Christian...a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Mark Felton
"Unitarian Christians (not unitarian universalists, a big difference) do not believe in the divinity of Christ. They do not believe in the Trinity."

I'm sorry, but people who don't believe in the divinity of Christ are not Christians. This should not even be controversial.

24 posted on 06/22/2005 3:31:51 PM PDT by Truthsayer20
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To: Mark Felton

His AUTOBIOGRAPHY! That was not written in the past 40 years, and he wrote it. So is that a no? No validation for your assertion that Franklin repudiated Deism?

In his autobiography he wrote...

Some books against Deism fell into my hands. ... They wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I became a thorough Deist.[1]

A THOROUGH Deist. Any evidence to contradict this?


25 posted on 06/22/2005 3:41:22 PM PDT by Mylo
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To: Truthsayer20
Well the definition of who gets to be a Christian is quite elastic with some. When trying to claim that the founding fathers were Christian, anti-Christians like Paine, Deists like Franklin, and a man who called himself a sect of one like Jefferson; all seem to get conveniently lumped in.

In order to do this one must ignore their many quotes that ridiculed the supernatural, denied the divinity of Christ, and denied allegiance to any religious creed.
26 posted on 06/22/2005 3:44:43 PM PDT by Mylo
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To: fight_truth_decay
Thought this might be of interest to some here

You thought correctly and thank you for posting this. It contains not one bit of information that I did not already know. However, to see what I know validated by the original document gives me a very comforting feeling, and a few shivers. I once visited St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia where the Second Virginia Convention convened on 20 March 1775. I stood on the exact spot on the very same wooden floor timbers that Patrick Henry had stood on 23 March 1775 when he delivered that famous speech. That also gave me shivers.

27 posted on 06/22/2005 3:48:09 PM PDT by MosesKnows
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To: fight_truth_decay
So the MSM is taking statements from the MSM of 100 years ago and calling it constitutional ?

I can only hope that future Americans, 100 years hence, don't start quoting Dick Turbin or John McCain.

28 posted on 06/22/2005 3:52:46 PM PDT by ChadGore (VISUALIZE 62,041,268 Bush fans.)
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To: Mark Felton
"Jefferson denied the divinity of Christ...(He was)a Christian in the only sense ... sincerely attached to His doctrines in preference to all others..."

Believing in Jesus' teachings isn't enough. We must believe him to be the resurrected Son of God.(John 3:16) Jesus said, "If you don't believe that I am HE, you will die in your sins."(John 8:24) We must receive him as our Savior from our sins.
29 posted on 06/22/2005 4:08:07 PM PDT by Jim W N
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To: Mylo; Truthsayer20
"In order to do this one must ignore their many quotes that ridiculed the supernatural, denied the divinity of Christ, and denied allegiance to any religious creed."

Jefferson certainly believed in the supernatural. He believed in God. He believed in angels, and Satan, he believed in Prayer and believed that God did intervene in the lives of men. (I have dozens of letters, quotes, from jefferson supporting this)

Jefferson despised the corruption of Christ's words by men who tried to seek advantage over other men. He despised the corruptions of the Catholic church. he did not agree that Christ was God, nor do I. Christ was the Son of God, not God Himself.

Funny, Mylo, but you choose to ignore the many more quotes of Jefferson when he claims to be Christian.

In Protestantism no man tells another man whether they are Christian or not. Each man himself claims their discipleship to Christ.

You can also be Christian without belonging to any specific church (though Jefferson attended several on a regular basis depending whether he was in Virginia or Washington)

Jefferson prayed to God, followed the teachings of Christ and shared the Gospel with others (he wrote books about Christ). I have hundreds of quotes of his supplications to God.

By definition Deists do not pray to God, nor do they believe in an afterlife. Jefferson did both.

You cannot deny Jeffersons own profession of faith in Christ.

You cannot ignore Jeffersons belief in an afterlife and judgment by God.

"We are not in a world ungoverned by the laws and the power of a Superior Agent. Our efforts are in His hand, and directed by it; and He will give them their effect in His own time." -- Thomas Jefferson To David Barrow, Monticello, 1815

30 posted on 06/22/2005 4:31:07 PM PDT by Mark Felton ("I am a real Christian...a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus." -- Thomas Jefferson)
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To: fight_truth_decay
Why can't understand that all Jefferson was against was an "Established church". He wanted to get away from the British system, i.e. the CHURCH OF ENGLAND, whereby one church got funding from the state and all others were against the law or discriminated against.

He was also against the idea that you had to be a member of the established church to vote or hold office.

Thats it. He wasn't against prayer in school, or reading the bible in school, or any of the other unchristian crap the ACLU and the SCOTUS have thought of in the last 50 years.

Massachusetts had an established church - which was given money by the state government - until 1845.
31 posted on 06/22/2005 4:46:56 PM PDT by rcocean (Copyright is theft and loved by Hollywood socialists)
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To: fight_truth_decay

Thanks for the link! I've been hunting around for something like this...


32 posted on 06/22/2005 4:50:09 PM PDT by TomServo ("Meanwhile, at Jackie Chan Technical College...")
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To: Mark Felton
Jefferson denied the miracles of Jesus. He called the writers of the New Testament charlatans.

"If we could believe that he [Jesus] really countenanced the follies, the falsehoods, and the charlatanism which his biographers [Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John,] father on him, and admit the misconstructions, interpolations, and theorizations of the fathers of the early, and the fanatics of the latter ages, the conclusion would be irresistible by every sound mind that he was an impostor" (Ibid..).

Jefferson denied the supernatural in the Bible.

"Read the Bible as you would Livy or Tacitus. For example, in the book of Joshua we are told the sun stood still for several hours. Were we to read that fact in Livy or Tacitus we should class it with their showers of blood, speaking of their statues, beasts, etc. But it is said that the writer of that book was inspired. Examine, therefore, candidly, what evidence there is of his having been inspired. The pretension is entitled to your inquiry, because millions believe it. On the other hand, you are astronomer enough to know how contrary it is to the law of nature" (Works, Vol. ii., p. 217).

Where does he say he believed in the supernatural? I don't doubt that he mentioned Satan and Angels, Providence and Prayer; rhetorical language was rife with the stuff in that day and age.

He professed himself to be a Christian based upon his love of the philosophy of Jesus Christ (also such couldn't hurt him politically with his foes calling him an atheist). The book he wrote about Christ had all the supernatural taken out of it.

Please supply the quotes. Jefferson was such a complex person, and a prolific writer so he can be quoted well on both sides of many issues; but I'd like to see them.
33 posted on 06/22/2005 6:34:31 PM PDT by Mylo
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To: Mark Felton

Also any evidence that the "Thorough Deist" (his own words about himself) Benjamin Franklin rejected Deism?


34 posted on 06/22/2005 6:40:31 PM PDT by Mylo
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To: Jim 0216
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, except on public property*."

 

*The Left's reading of the 1st Amendment.

35 posted on 06/22/2005 6:44:43 PM PDT by MNnice
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To: Truthsayer20; lizol; anonymoussierra; Vorthax; Polak z Polski; Grzegorz 246; Lukasz; JoAnka; ...
I'm sorry, but people who don't believe in the divinity of Christ are not Christians. This should not even be controversial.

Denial of divinity of Christ is a heresy like it was in the case of Arians/followers of Arius. But such heretics are still Christian if they believe that Jesus is Christ/Messiah.

Christian Unitarians are similiar doctrinally to Arians. That is why so called Polish Brethren were also called Arianie/Arians.

Christian Unitarianism is a logical conclusion of progression of the Reformation. Lutherans put individual judgment as arbiter of the Christian doctrine (based on private reading of the Gospels), Calvinism made the human reason the key part of this individual judgement (denying the reality of sacraments) and Unitarianism rejected the mysteries of the Faith like Holy Trinity.

That is why Lutheran Church was named Evangelical Church, Calvinist Church was named Reformed Evangelical Church and Unitarians were called Minor Reformed Church.

36 posted on 06/22/2005 6:59:55 PM PDT by A. Pole (The Law of Comparative Advantage: "Americans should not have children and should not go to college")
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later pingout for sure.


37 posted on 06/22/2005 7:05:55 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: Mylo
I don't believe Jefferson could accurately be called anti-Christian for denying the miracles of Jesus. I think it can fairly be argued that his beliefs accorded with those held by most conservative Christian Americans today, at least those who like myself do not refer to themselves as fundamentalists. Because I believe man to be corrupt, flawed, and sinful, I must be suspicious of every document physically written by man because it has corrupted the pure word of God in some way, intentionally or otherwise.

Despite subscribing to Judeo-Christian principles, I don't believe the Sun has ever stood still, or that two of every animal were ever put on a ship, or that thousands of people can literally eat from a couple loaves of bread.

Even the text of the New Testament never claims (so far as I've understood it) that Jesus's original followers would lay down a divine account of his life. If that were the case, they could not differ in their accounts--and the Gospels do so. Even the Gospel narratives show the various flaws of the disciples; imperfect beings could never lay down a perfect account, could they?

I believe and most Americans believe that the Ten Commandments are a binding eternal law and that we are by God as Christians to follow the merciful example of Christ in our daily lives. But if believing every supernatural story that some mortal scribe recorded on a scroll is necessary to be a "Christian," I would submit that there are quite likely less than a million true "Christians" in the whole of the Western world.

38 posted on 06/23/2005 3:12:58 AM PDT by American Soldier
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To: MNnice

"...except on public property*..."

or within eagle-eyes view of the same, at least per the ACLU, eh?


39 posted on 06/23/2005 6:05:39 AM PDT by CGVet58 (God has granted us Liberty, and we owe Him Courage in return)
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To: American Soldier
I didn't say Jefferson was anti-Christian. He treasured the teachings of Jesus and wrote his own version of the New Testament with all the supernatural taken out.

I said Thomas Paine was anti-Christian, it was his greatest downfall intellectually, socially, politically, and spiritually. His writings clearly show his anti-Christian thoughts, and he was clearly one of our more influential founding fathers; once more giving the lie to the notion that all our founding fathers were Christian and that they founded this nation on Christianity; Thomas Paine would give aid and comfort to no such enterprise.
40 posted on 06/23/2005 7:37:57 AM PDT by Mylo
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