Democrats must learn to frame the debate

Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | 6/22/05 | JOEL CONNELLY

[dukeman]

Silly Dems-- still focused on packaging instead of the package's contents. What will they say to this Pied Piper Lakoff in '08 when the voters, yet again, do not buy what they're sellin'?

Before chiming in with your comments, look at the DUers' take on this article:

freeplessinseattle (949 posts) Wed Jun-22-05 05:49 AM
Original message

Snarky review of Lakoff visit in Seattle PI

wtf is this doing in the Seattle PI?? He's dismissing the DSM as a "conspiracy theory", and criticized Jim McDermott for saying in 2002 that * would lie to get us into war. huh? seems to have turned out to be true, so what if it alienated some red state people, he's not running for national office, he's one of the few pols that speaks his mind, and he turned out to be right about something very important.

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3917276 for further moonbat commentary.

[TruthShallSetYouFree]

"The truth will NOT set you free," argues Lakoff

I guess I'm going to have to change my screen name.

[cloud8]

Yes, and a "progressive" evokes the image of one who is fighting for a bright and shining future, rather than one mired in the dark and dismal past. Slice it anyway you want, Lakoff, it's still the same old liberal slime.

[mewzilla]

Is this Limbaugh's Lakoff-rhymes-with....well, er, never mind. That Lakoff?

[dukeman]

They can't handle the truth! :-)

[Jabba the Nutt]

"Frank Luntz (a GOP pollster) sent a memo last year telling Republicans to identify the war in Iraq as part of the war on terror," Lakoff said in an interview.

It helps to have the truth on your side. Is Iraq NOT part of the war on terror? I don't think Republicans needed Frank Luntz to tell them this.

[kevkrom]

Democrats must learn to frame the debate

Oh, please... the 'rats need to come with defensible ideas. That's why they're losing -- it's impossible to "frame" the debate when your entire platform is "NO NO NO NO NO!"

[jmaroneps37]

Memo to the evil donkey: the reason why you're not in power is because THE DOGS DON'T LIKE THE FOOD YOU"RE SERVING.
It's NOTHING MORE COMPLICATED THAN THAT!

[Puppage]

a "progressive"

A progressive is a person who's afraid to call themselves a liberal, IMHO.

[goldstategop]

The Democrats think you can fool people with slick marketing. Its harder and harder to do as they reveal their real views about America - a la Dick "Birdbrain" Durbin. To use George Lackoff's metaphor - try "framing" your hostility to the U.S military and see where it gets you with the rest of the country. The Democrats need guys like Lackoff since they can't be honest with the American people about who they really are.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[goldstategop]

The party of the stop sign. I keep hearing Howard Dean tell us they have a "positive agenda." If there is one, its a well-kept secret.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[Mr. Jeeves]

Well, that's kind of what he is saying...the problem is when the Democrats try to frame the debate in terms favorable to them, it turns out that they don't actually have any ideas. So this guy's advice may be Dick Morris-like and good, but there is no way the Democrats can take it. The DU responses are a good example of why - rational talk infuriates the hard Left, who wants Bush impeached now and doesn't want to hear about painstaking strategies to slowly get back into power. If the Democrats don't keep that group happy, they lose them to the Greens...thus the ludicrous rhetoric from the McDermotts and the Durbins.

BTW, I'm actually happy with Durbin's Fred Flintstone style apology (Fred to Barney: "You're stupid." Wilma: "You apologize to Barney!" Fred: "OK, I'm sorry you're stupid.") because, just like Howard Dean, by remaining where he is he can keep doing damage to his party. Trent Lott only stepped down because of pressure form other Republicans - since the Dems don't play the game that way, talk of censure is pointless.

[dukeman]

Yep, it's the same guy. He's peddling advice to Dems along the lines of "it's not what you say, it's how you say it." You see, we're just clay in the hands of slick Republican politicos, so why can't the "superior" Dem intellect manipulate us as well? :-)

[libertylover]

"The truth will NOT set you free," argues Lakoff...

Confirms part of my tagline: Liberals don't give a damn about the truth.

[Jabba the Nutt]

"Lakoff sounded like an updated Lowry at times. "The folks controlling our country right now are not true conservatives," he declared. "They're radicals.""

Gee, this is a new idea and new way to "frame" the debate, call Republicans 'extreme'. We've never heard that one before.

[mewzilla]

LOL. To think people pay this guy money. Talk about pouring it down a 'Rat hole...

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

Our cumbersome state government minted a lot of the "Dinocrats" who almost captured the governorship.

I thought one did... er, I mean stole the governorship...

Funny, their Manchurian candidate won the Seattle mayorship running as a Republican - - and look at him now...

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

"Liberals" are provincial. They sound what they take to be "grand themes" but which turn out on calm inspection to all be predicated, first and foremost, on the promotion of facile snake-oil panaceas.

"Liberalism" isn't leadership but the negation of leadership. Look at John Kerry and his run for president - he had no program other than criticism for criticism's sake. That is a perfect description of a journalist, not a leader. Just say whatever will look good in tomorrow's paper - and let tomorrow take care of itself.

Look at Clinton and his permanent campaign. No leadership at all. Cheyney's littany at the '00 Republican national Convention was spot on:

"They had their chance. They have not led. We will."

[goldstategop]

Like a pretty face will. Come to think of it, when we're supposed to judge people by appearances, how come we don't come across a happy liberal?

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[dirtboy]

"The truth will NOT set you free," argues Lakoff,

Lakoff makes some good points, but also engages in a fair amount of projection here. He assumes that the GOP is selling to fears, when they actually are addressing legitimate concerns of the red-state voters (and a lot of folks within the blue states).

It's not about repackaging old Dem ideas and shedding a few Dem pathologies. It's realizing that the Dem pathologies have BECOME their values.