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Protect Libraries From FBI Snoops! (WI Op/Ed)
Wisconsin State Journal ^ | June 20, 2005 | Uncredited

Posted on 06/21/2005 7:58:19 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin

The U.S. House of Representatives dealt a blow to Big Brother last week.

The House voted 238-187 to protect our library records and bookstore receipts from willy-nilly government perusal.

The bipartisan vote sent a clear message to the U.S. Senate and to President Bush that the privacy rights of law-abiding American citizens must be respected even as the hard work of fighting and preventing terrorism continues.

Congress and the president are preparing to extend the Patriot Act, an anti-terrorism law quickly approved after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The president has threatened to veto the measure if Congress makes changes. The Senate should call the president's bluff by accepting the House change.

Libraries and bookstores are not havens for terrorists. They are learning centers for vast numbers of Americans who shouldn't have to worry about which titles or authors they happen to be reading.

Quirky taste in reading material shouldn't prompt or prop up bogus investigations of innocent bookworms. If the Justice Department or the FBI has good reason to suspect someone of terrorism, they should be able to convince a judge that a search warrant for library and bookstore records is warranted. The House change wouldn't prevent that.

A majority of Wisconsin's House members, including all four Democrats and Republican U.S. Rep. Tom Petri of Fond du Lac, voted to block easy government access to our reading records. Those favoring broad government power to peruse our library and bookstore records were U.S. Reps. Mark Green, R-Green Bay - who wants to be Wisconsin's next governor - Paul Ryan, R-Janesville, and James Sensenbrenner, R-Menomonee Falls.

The federal government hasn't even used the provision to obtain library or bookstore records, according to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. If that's the case, why leave this broad, invasive power in place? By the government's own admission, it hasn't done any good and hasn't been needed despite significant and numerous terrorism warnings issued by the government in recent years.

In all likelihood, a potential terrorist would use the Internet to find information for their plot - not the public library or a Borders. And accessing the Internet takes little more than a cheap computer plugged into a phone line at a motel.

Adding to the uselessness of government snooping powers at libraries is the fact that many libraries regularly purge from their computers everything but overdue items.

Even if staunch proponents of a sweeping Patriot Act remain unconvinced, the House threw them a bone. The House version of the Patriot Act carves out permission for government to seek records on Internet use at libraries.

We doubt that power will be any help in terrorism prevention and prosecution, either. But it's less offensive because many libraries limit access to certain Web sites, such as those devoted to pornography.

The Patriot Act may still be needed to make sure our nation is adequately protected. But it's continuation must be coupled with careful thought and concern for the privacy rights of ordinary Americans.

The House vote last week was a welcome step toward protecting people's lives and their liberty.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections; US: Wisconsin
KEYWORDS: aclulist; donutwatch; fbi; govwatch; libertarians; library; patriotact
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To: hiramknight; All

"If they want privacy, go buy them."

Good thought, but that doesn't neccesarily work, either. I get e-mails from amazon.com on a regular basis stating, "Since you purchased and enjoyed thus & such, try this new author..."


101 posted on 06/21/2005 12:19:00 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Actually, if I were an employer or a lawyer or a voter, I'd like that information on people in those examples.

It might save me from hiring a pedophile to work in my day care center, from giving child custody to a drug dealer or voting for a person who talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk. (Hillary? LOL!)

Believe it or not, people LIE on paper, in life and in court. ;)


102 posted on 06/21/2005 12:24:28 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (Save The Earth. It's The Only Planet With Chocolate.)
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To: free_handle

OK. What's the problem here? I agree with all of this, and you know why? I don't ever plan to have any property seized that will be or has been used in the commission of a crime against the laws of the United States, if someone does he should be thrown in jail. You libs amaze and confuse me. How can you have problem with this?


103 posted on 06/21/2005 12:25:13 PM PDT by hiramknight
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To: CyberAnt
Please show me in print from the Patriot Act where this will be allowed. According to many lawyers I heard from .. there is no such statute allowing searches which are not first approved by a judge.

Ok. But first, a judge is still involved. It's just that the judge cannot deny the warrant if the government meets minimum requirements and cites it as a "terrorism" or foreign intelligence investigation. Probable cause is not listed as a requirement.

Section 215

`(b) Each application under this section--

`(1) shall be made to--
`(A) a judge of the court established by section 103(a); or
`(B) a United States Magistrate Judge under chapter 43 of title 28, United States Code, who is publicly designated by the Chief Justice of the United States to have the power to hear applications and grant orders for the production of tangible things under this section on behalf of a judge of that court; and
`(2) shall specify that the records concerned are sought for an authorized investigation conducted in accordance with subsection (a)(2) to protect against international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.

`(c)(1) Upon an application made pursuant to this section, the judge shall enter an ex parte order as requested, or as modified, approving the release of records if the judge finds that the application meets the requirements of this section.

Look ma, no probable cause necessary! Looks like the judge has tons of oversight here. /sarcasm

Let's continue :

`(2) An order under this subsection shall not disclose that it is issued for purposes of an investigation described in subsection (a).

`(d) No person shall disclose to any other person (other than those persons necessary to produce the tangible things under this section) that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought or obtained tangible things under this section.


Ooh! Secret searches with no probable cause! No problem there! Except

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

But who cares about that if we can be "safe."
104 posted on 06/21/2005 12:35:32 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

What books would you use to check if someone is a drug dealer or a pedophile?


105 posted on 06/21/2005 12:36:53 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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Comment #106 Removed by Moderator

To: hiramknight
OK. What's the problem here? I agree with all of this, and you know why? I don't ever plan to have any property seized that will be or has been used in the commission of a crime against the laws of the United States, if someone does he should be thrown in jail. You libs amaze and confuse me. How can you have problem with this?

That's a lot of cash you're carrying there, comrade. What were you going to buy with that? Drugs? Guns for terrorists? I think we are going to have to take this from you until we can investigate.

Lots of bank transactions, too. You wouldn't mind if we had a look around, would you? And also, your papers, please.
107 posted on 06/21/2005 12:40:13 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

Wow. Does paronoia run in your family. There's no point in even arguing with that. It's like trying to prove to someone 1+1=2, who insists it equals 11.


108 posted on 06/21/2005 12:45:01 PM PDT by hiramknight
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To: hiramknight

It's also useless to argue the worth of the Bill of Rights with someone who values their political party more than the principles this country was founded on.


109 posted on 06/21/2005 12:48:43 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

Ahhh, I remember when I was young, passionate and idealistic. I then grew up and learned to think with my head and not my heart. I'm sure if the founding fathers knew there would be a day when the bill of rights provided people who hate and kill Americans protection, they would certainly agree with a few changes.


110 posted on 06/21/2005 12:58:08 PM PDT by hiramknight
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To: hiramknight
Ahhh, I remember when I was young, passionate and idealistic. I then grew up and learned to think with my head and not my heart. I'm sure if the founding fathers knew there would be a day when the bill of rights provided people who hate and kill Americans protection, they would certainly agree with a few changes.

There are two legal ways to change the Constitution or suspend the Bill of Rights.

1. Amend

2. Declare martial law.

That's it. Passing some unconstitutional law cannot amend the Constitution, regardless of the worth of the cause. They did that to prevent tyranny and subversion of the limits on the federal government.
111 posted on 06/21/2005 1:08:25 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: free_handle

So .. this says basically that AN OFFICIAL WARRANT WAS ISSUED .. and now the investigation has seized a computer .. ON THAT COMPUTER IS INFORMATION WHICH WILL .. LEAD TO OTHER TERROR CELLS .. LEAD TO SOURCES OF MATERIALS PURCHASED FOR THE TERROR CRIME .. LEAD TO OTHER COUNTRIES OR ORGANIZATIONS WHICH ARE PROVIDING SUPPORT.

At that point .. the investigator does not have to return to the court to get another warrant to continue on with the investigation. Because if the officer had to take the time to do that .. the element of surprise is lost .. and it's possible the other cells would be able to move or hide or destroy their association.

I know it could be misused. Any law can be misused. But .. if one of those terror cells is in your neighborhood .. you're a dead man .. because that cell is going to your local mall where your wife and children shop to plant their bomb.


112 posted on 06/21/2005 1:09:05 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: inquest

Well .. those of us on FR KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE.


113 posted on 06/21/2005 1:10:14 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: mysterio

Lots of Living Document Conservatives around.


114 posted on 06/21/2005 1:10:59 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: news2me
"If it's never been used, why do they think they need it? If they could prosecute a librarian for telling that you they had used this power, do you really think that they would admit to using it?"

Apparently they think that in some extraordinary case, this might be useful. I admit I don't know exactly what the government had in mind when inserting this provision into the law. One possibility is that many libraries now have computers available for use by the public, and any data stored on those computers as a result of use by a terrorist suspect might tehnically qualify as "library records." And the provision against librarians obviously is intended to deter a librarian from tipping off a suspect about an ongoing investigation.
115 posted on 06/21/2005 1:14:17 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Living document "neocons" is more like it. But yes, there certainly are a lot of government apologists around here.


116 posted on 06/21/2005 1:17:25 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

What do you think I meant by changes?? That's what ammend means. If the officials that we elect deem it necessary to amend the constitution or bill of rights to keep us from being killed, that's what I expect them to do. Privacy is a beautiful and wonderful thing....unless I've been blown up by a terrorist who learned how to make a bomb from books he checked out at my town library.


117 posted on 06/21/2005 1:18:13 PM PDT by hiramknight
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To: free_handle

You wrote this before you had my answer.

I have a life - not all if it is spent answering your whining about the Patriot Act.

And .. 95% of the Patriot Act was only to give our police the same laws to fight terror as we already had to fight other crime. So .. I'm just not upset about it. And .. I beg to differ with you about my outlook being liberal - it's the liberals who don't want any of the Patriot Act - not me.


118 posted on 06/21/2005 1:20:56 PM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: hiramknight

But the "patriot" act is a law, not an amendment! If your law violates the Constitution, it cannot stand. I have clearly demonstrated that this law violates the Constitution, you have stated that the founding fathers would want to amend it to catch the "terrorists," so here we are. They are trying to amend the Constitution without actually amending it! That should piss you off, regardless of how much you want to be protected from terrorists, or drugs, or whatever other issue is the hot one at the any particular time.


119 posted on 06/21/2005 1:22:54 PM PDT by mysterio
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To: mysterio

I'm sure you and mysterio are very intelligent, well educated individuals but your lack of common sense betrays your political affiliation. I think it was Winston Churchill who said, "to be young and a liberal means you have a heart, to be old and a liberal means you lack a brain".


120 posted on 06/21/2005 1:25:33 PM PDT by hiramknight
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