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"Immigration is such a 3d rail. Many of us far right Republicans including libertarians like me, and social conservatives, and evangelilcal abolitionist Republicans are pro-immigration. Others on the right are anti (illegal) immigration. The Dem party is also divided on the issue. In neither party are the divisions liberal-conservative. They have a unique dynamic. Lies and irrational logic are prevalent among the high profile spokespeople on both sides of immigration. Most politicians see no way to win on that issue. To take one side or the other associates them with the lies and irrationality that will destroy them."

You may have an unusual point of view on the subject of immigration--and to be fair, the subject is not immigration, it is border control.

An overwhelming majority of the American people poll firmly on the position that we should close the borders--and kick illegals out; control non-citizens who live here for more than a week or two. Certainly not let them vote or burden the rest of us with health care and public service expenses with no contribution to the cost.

From Mrs. Clinton's point of view that is not an unmitigated positive even though she has a poll structured position in line with the majority--because Conservatives are more likely to be on this position than liberals.

The point of this discussion as far as Mrs. Clinton is concerned is that she is rapidly appropriating the mainstream Conservative position on a number of these issues. What she would do if elected is a legitimate question. But she has effectively transformed her public political agenda into the middle of the road with several dips into clear Conservative positions that have great political appeal.

I don't like her any better than the rest of you. But at least at this point, the Republican candidate universe consists of a bunch of wets. Mrs. Clinton is going to get more votes than any of the wets.

Why does the moderator pull some "border control" threads? Because he sees it as outside of "mainstream" conservative thought? I disagree with him in pulling the threads. But it does support the fact that "border control" sentiment is not as strong as you would think.

My sense of Illinois (city, burbs, downstate) is that if you asked Republicans open ended questions:
In choosing a presidential candiate, what are your top 3 conerns?
10% of Republicans side with you on "border control".
25% of Republicans are strongly pro-immigration like me.
65% of Republicans are focused on other issues and immigration is way down their list.

Corruption is by far the #1 issue... but that may be unique to Illinois.
Education is perpetually a top issue .... although nobody agrees on the solution.
Life, Gays, Guns, War on terrorism, taxes, over-regulation would place high.

There are several types of pro-immigrant Republicans.
Libertarians like Eric Dondero and me.
Compassionate conservatives like the GOP leader in my Schaumburg Twp suburb St Rep Paul Froehlich.
Abolitionist Republicans who overlap compassionate conservatives but also include some non-conservatives and some who are dogmatic and not compassionate.
Mercantilists (in the Adam Smith sense) who are motivated by cheap labor for business.
Karl Rove wannabes who think it is part of a play for the Hispanic vote.