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Doctor: Schiavo Autopsy Conclusions Flawed
NewsMax ^ | 6/19/05 | Carl Limbacher

Posted on 06/19/2005 6:04:50 PM PDT by wagglebee

Dr. William Hammesfahr, nominated for a Nobel Prize for his work in Medicine, has been recognized by agents for Medicare, the federal government, and others for new approaches to helping the brain injured.

Dr. Hammesfahr has been identified in helping patients with chronic brain injuries from many causes actually leave long term disability, and return to work.

Dr. Hammesfahr was identified the first physician to restore deficits caused by stroke.

Dr. Hammesfahr has released the following statement in response to the autopsy report on Terri Schindler Schiavo:

We have seen a lot on the autopsy of Terri Schindler Schiavo in recent days, that I feel needs to be addressed. To ignore these comments will allow future 'Terri Schiavo's' to die needlessly after the wishes of clinicians and family are ignored.

Considering that there were so many physicians and therapists who were willing to step forward to treat Terri Schiavo, from university based practitioners to those in private practice, it clearly shows that the mainstream medical community across the board, those involved in treating patients, knew that they could help Terri.

The record must be set straight. As we noted in the press, there was no heart attack, or evident reason for this to have happened (and certainly not of Terri's making).

Unlike the constant drumbeat from the husband, his attorneys, and his doctors, the brain tissue was not dissolved, with a head of just spinal fluid. In fact, large areas were "relatively preserved."

The purpose of the therapies offered by so many, from major universities, brain injury centers, and from private practice physicians, is to improve and restore quality of life, and function, which the mainstream medical community clearly tried to get to her.

I have had a chance to look at Dr. Nelson's analysis of the brain tissue, and essentially, as a clinician, these are my thoughts.

The autopsy results confirmed my opinion and Dr. Maxfield's opinions, that the frontal areas of the brains, the areas that deal with awareness and cognition were relatively intact. To use Dr. Nelson's words, "relatively preserved." In fact, the relay areas from the frontal and front temporal regions of the brain, to the spinal cord and the brain stem, by way of the basal ganglia, were preserved, thus the evident responses which she was able to express to her family and to the clinicians seeing her or viewing her videotape. The Spect scan confirmed these areas were functional and not scar tissue, and that was apparently also confirmed on Dr. Nelson's review of the slides. Dr. Maxfield's estimates of retained brain weight were apparently accurate, although there may have been some loss of brain weight due to the last two weeks of dehydration.

Dr. Maxfield and myself both emphasized that she was a woman trapped in her body, similar to a child with cerebral palsy, and that was born out by the autopsy, showing greater injury in the motor and visual centers of the brain. Obviously, the pathologists comments that she could not see were not borne out by reality, and thus his assessment must represent sampling error. The videotapes clearly showed her seeing, and even Dr. Cranfoed, for the husband, commented to her that, when she could see the balloon, she could follow it with her eyes as per his request.

That she could not swallow was obviously not borne out by the reality that she was swallowing her saliva, about 1.5 liters per day of liquid, and the clinical swallowing tests done by Dr. Young and Dr. Carpenter. Thus, there appears to be some limitations to the clinical accuracy of an autopsy in evaluating function.

With respect to the issue of trauma, that certainly does not appear to be answered adequately. Some of the types of trauma that are suspected were not adequately evaluated in this assessment. Interestingly, both myself and at least one neurologist for the husband testified to the presence of neck injuries. The issue of a forensic evaluation for trauma, is highly specialized. Hence the wish of the family to have observers which was refused by the examiner.

Ultimately, based on the clinical evidence and the autopsy results, an aware woman was killed.

s/Dr. W. Hammesfahr

[Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999. The Nomination was for work started in 1994. In 2000, this work resulted in approval for the first patent in history granted for the treatment of neurological diseases including coma, stroke, brain injury, cerebral palsy, hypoxic injuries and other neurovascular disorders with medications that restore blood flow to the brain. It was extended to treat successfully disabilities including ADD, ADHD, Dyslexia, Tourette's and Autism as well as behaviorally and emotionally disturbed children, seizures and severe migraines.]


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dailynutjob; emotionallydisabled; euthanasia; fraud; hammesfahr; nobellaureate; nominatedbyhismama; schiavoautopsy; swindlers; terrischiavo; williamhammesfahr; worldsgreatestdoctor; wppff
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To: Earthdweller; All
Another amazing coincidence..Terri's ashes are buried in Clearwater. Looks like Clearwater will get a lot of revenue from pilgrimages to her grave.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/1427101/posts?page=1

821 posted on 06/22/2005 1:31:56 AM PDT by Earthdweller (US descendant of French Protestants_"Where there is life, there is hope"..Terri Schindler)
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To: Freedom Dignity n Honor
>> Now this sentence about room temperature, I don't understand what it implies. I've never heard "room temperature" refered to in a legal document.

It refers to incidents related in a deposition by Carla Sauer Iyers, a nurse who cared for Terri for more than one year, that after Michael's visits to Terri behind closed and locked doors, she'd find the A/C reset to maximum cooling and the room temperature much too low for a sedentary patient.

This information was included in a petition to the court, presumably to remove Michael as guardian because he was abusive. I am doing this from memory at a borrowed computer while on the road. If my memory errs, anyone who can correct it -- please do.

822 posted on 06/22/2005 3:46:38 AM PDT by T'wit (T'wit's Fourth Law: Liberals are always wrong, even when they come down on both sides of the issue.)
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To: blueriver

"I am not blinded by emotions, I asked you very simply how your counter argument has anything to do with a comment I made with respect to conspiracy theories, instead of throwing around insults why don't you explain how a statement about conspiracy theories has anything to do with your comments."

The comment has to do with YOUR conspiriracy theory. An equal one can be made. What's the insult? You being emotional about the issue? Are you saying you aren't?


823 posted on 06/22/2005 4:14:07 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Freedom Dignity n Honor
Also from memory and subject to correction, Pat Anderson, the Schindlers' attorney, has related that the bone scan was unknown to herself and the Schindlers until George Felos accidentally handed it to her in court along with a stack of other papers. She was shocked by it, got medical opinions on what it meant, and quickly went back to court with it. (She has also pointed out that the bone scan would have been a "perfect defense" in the malpractice suit.)

Greer, as we see here, dismissed the matter, saying that it was no longer relevant. (Really? And if Michael inflicted trauma leading to Terri's "collapse," that doesn't affect his guardianship?)

Greer's statement that the document was available "over time" is extremely slippery. It was not available to the Schindlers for ten years or more after the scan.

824 posted on 06/22/2005 4:18:51 AM PDT by T'wit (T'wit's Fourth Law: Liberals are always wrong, even when they come down on both sides of the issue.)
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To: ClancyJ

"I am not into medical analysis"
I am but thanks anyway.

"She was alive not-dying"

Everyone is dying...just at different rates.


825 posted on 06/22/2005 4:20:39 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Freedom Dignity n Honor

And yet as late as this year, the Schindlers were on television complaining that medical reports were withheld from them and they believe Terri had broken bones when she presented at the hospital and that's why they presumed they weren't given the bone scan.

See how that works?

And they did testify in court to the bone scan; if I linked the incorrect link earlier it's because I've gotten rid of most of these files and the new ones aren't properly labeled as to trial and date.


826 posted on 06/22/2005 4:42:37 AM PDT by Peach
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To: Smartaleck
The comment has to do with YOUR conspiriracy theory. An equal one can be made. What's the insult? You being emotional about the issue? Are you saying you aren't?

My comment has to do with my stating that the killing of Terri was not bought about by a big conspiracy as so many have alluded to (see post #627). How could a statement about Shindler motives be at all related to that? To which Smartalec responded (post#715) with a counter post having to do with something about the Shindlers motives. To which I responded to in post #732 stating that the connection between the two is missing. To which Smartalec responded to in post #774 - with no explanation of the connection.

Then in post #787 you step in and call me stupid. Which in my book is an insult.

With respect to the question regarding if I am emotional about this subject. I would ask you to point to ONE post where I exhibited ANY emotion. I don't consider being called emotional an insult, however I do not think I have displayed any emotion on any of my posts that could possibly lead you to know what my emotional level is.

827 posted on 06/22/2005 5:59:32 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: blueriver

Actually it was DaveS that called me stupid - so I take back the comment about the insults to you.


828 posted on 06/22/2005 6:06:29 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: Smartaleck

Actually it was DaveS that called me stupid - so I take back the comment about the insults.


829 posted on 06/22/2005 6:09:12 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: Dave S
That is the most incoherent statement Ive read all week.

Ok Dave S I will explain it - since it is obvoius you are too lazy to read the posts yourself.

My comment has to do with my stating that the killing of Terri was not bought about by a big conspiracy as so many have alluded to (READ post #627). To which Smartalec responded (READ post#715) with a counter post having to do with something about the Shindlers motives. To which I responded to in post #732 stating that the connection between the two POSTS is missing. To which Smartalec responded to in post #774 - with no explanation of the connection. Then in post #787 you step in and call me stupid. And the rest is all about you not getting any of it.

830 posted on 06/22/2005 6:17:57 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: blueriver
Ok Dave S I will explain it - since it is obvoius you are too lazy to read the posts yourself.

If you are going to quote others like Smartaleck in your post, make at least some effort to have your response have something to do with what you are quoting. Either that or just make your comment without quoting others. By the way, most people I know read the posts in the order they are made, not directly following the development of your profound thoughts over time. Each of your stirring pronoucements should be able to stand on its own.

831 posted on 06/22/2005 7:52:45 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: T'wit
NOT going from memory but from the trial court document, Greer noted -

"The affidavits in support of the Emergency Motion relating to this bone scan report simply established that affiants did not have actual knowledge of that report, although counsel in argument CONCEDED that the report WAS AVAILABLE and WAS IN POSSESSION of the Respondents SEVERAL ATTORNEYS over time. There has been no suggestion that the bone scan was secreted or the information withheld intentionally FROM ANYONE.

The following are from various testimony and court documents. How is it only Dr. Walker of Bone Scan fame saw something all of these observers missed? Greer dismissing the motion seems to be on pretty firm ground.

5/6/1990 X-Ray Report Dr. Nancy Abramson
Images taken of right knee - intact with no bony abnormality
5/9/1990 Humana Discharge Summary
****Developed right knee fusion. **** Improved slowly and gradually.
6/27/1990 X Ray Report Dr. Stone
Images of chest for pneumonia, mediastinum and bony thorax show ****no abnormalities****
8/16/1990 Progress Note Dr. Baras Do not notice any change in left leg.
8/22/1990 Progress Notes Dr. Baras
More flexibility in left lower leg and hip flexion but left knee is stiff. Need to repeat ___. Check on H.O. May need to consider right knee manipulation (ortho)
8/23/1990 X-Ray Report Dr. Pruit
Images taken left knee - Reason for exam - H.O. ****No fractures or dislocations, moderate amt of heterotrophic bone formation along medial aspect of the distal femur. Small amount along lateral aspect of distal femural shaft.

2/4/1991 Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Both knees increased warmth, start Keflex, question H.O. of knees, repeat alkalyn phosphotase. ? Bone Scan
2/5/1991 Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan Both knees very warm, probable arthritis / H.O.
2/5/1991 X-Ray Report Dr. Ricciardello
2 views each, right knee, left knee. ****No fracture or subluxation. There is severe osteopenia and degenerative change.
2/15/1991 Progress Notes Dr. Alcazaren
Knees swelling, left greater than right. H.O. vs. breaking of adhesions, treat locally w/ heat
2/18/1991 Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Knees both tender to touch, right lower thigh indurated, probably H.O.

3/5/1991*** Bone Scan Report Dr. Walker***
Evaluate for Trauma Multiple hot spots

3/8/1991 Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Bone Scan reveals subperiosteal area of right thigh - most likely reflects H.O. Other areas not explained by disease ? Infection. Neoplastic is rare probability.
3/12/1991 Progress Notes Dr. Carnahan
Question if arthritis or bone involvement was related to Dilantin (?)
5/6/1991 MS Journal Sits real good (sic) in her chair, moves her head back and forth while laying in bed. Right Knee swollen, ***Dr. thinks its fluid, taking X-rays
5/7/1991 Physical Therapy Monthly Summary
Terri remains essentially unchanged from last month. An increase in bone growth has been noted in right thigh, secondary to H.O., making PROM increasingly difficult. Plan to continue P.T. as per orders 1 X per month
6/5/1991 Physical Therapy Monthly Reevaluation
Since Terri was last seen, she has had a significant loss in range of motion at both hips and knees, esp on left
6/21/1991 Progress Note Dr. Alcazaran
X-Ray of right arm - bone negative. Shows less agitation, less posturing. Suspect related to stimulator.
6/24/1991 X-Ray Report Dr. Durance
2 views right humerous, ***no evidence of fracture***
7/8/1991 Progress Note Dr. Alcazaran
Husband asking about casting ankle. On exam, fixed contracture - tendon shortening.
heterotrophic ossification

Walker testimony -
Q Okay. Were you looking for heterotrophic ossification when you read the bone scan and the radiographs? Do you know?
A I think that's in our mind when we see a rehabilitation patient because we don't know from
the history how old the injury was. And, of course, heterotrophic bone is something that occurs
particularly in people who are immobilized for long periods of time. So that would be something that we
would mention were we to see a typical pattern for that, yes.
Q Okay. The abnormalities in the multiple bilateral ribs, could that have occurred during an
attempt at resuscitation by the paramedics or hospital staff?
A A vigorous resuscitation could do that, yes.

Q Do you know Dr. Donald Durrance?
A Yes, I do.
Q Do you know what kind of a physician he is?
A He's a diagnostic radiologist with a specialty in neuroradiology.
Q His report indicates there that his impression is "no evidence of fracture"?
A That would be what it says, yes.
Q What do you understand that to mean?
A It means he didn't see an alteration of the radiographic anatomy that would suggest that
there was a broken bone there.

Q So he's saying he didn't see any evidence of a fracture in her right upper arm?
A He's saying not only did he not see any evidence of a fracture but that the soft tissues
are, quote, intact, yes.

Q Are you familiar with Dr. Ricciardello?
A I am.
Q What kind of a physician is he?
A He's also a diagnostic radiologist with a specialty in neuroradiology.
Q And his report indicates, as far as the left knee conclusion, "no acute injury," and right
knee conclusion, "no acute injury."
A Correct.

Q In that affidavit, Dr. Alcazaren gives
7 his interpretation of the radiologist's report dated
8 March 5, 1991 of the bone scan as an indication of
9 "heterotrophic ossification, not trauma." Do you
10 see where it says that?
11 A Yes, I do.

Of those areas that were imaged, the only area that showed what was a clear fracture was L1.

Q The radiographs did not show any fractures of the right femur. Correct?
A ***It would be safe to conclude that those areas which were actually imaged did not disclose
any additional abnormalities.***
Q Okay. And because there is no comment in your report of any abnormalities in the head, neck?
or shoulder area, that is an indication that either those images were taken and you observed no
abnormalities or that those images were not ever taken. Is that an accurate statement?
A Yes.
Q But in either one of those events, ***you did not observe any abnormalities to the head, neck
or shoulder area?*** (contrary to what some Freepers think they observed)
A To the extent that they are not described in the report, I would say yes.

Q So we don't know whether her ribs were broken?
A We don't. And I don't believe that they were imaged, based on that report.

Q Now, "monitor for H.O.," would that be, do you think, heterotrophic ossification?

MS. ANDERSON: Objection. Calls for speculation.
A I agree, that calls for speculation. It could be hypertrophic osteoarthropathy...
832 posted on 06/22/2005 8:51:38 AM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Dave S
By the way, most people I know read the posts in the order they are made, not directly following the development of your profound thoughts over time. Each of your stirring pronoucements should be able to stand on its own.

The post that you responded to by calling me stupid does stand on its own, it is just that you did not understand it and jumped to the wrong conclusions about it. Here it is for your convenience:

How do you connect the above with the outcome of Terri being killed? None of what you mentioned had any bearing on the court order to kill Terri. Are you saying that Terri's parents conspired to get Michael to ask judge Greer to kill Terri? Makes no sense.

The statement is clear and it really does stand on it's own and it is not stupid. Since you called me stupid I decided it was worth my effort to try to explain to you why you misunderstood my post. Maybe I succeeded maybe I did not. Either way I suspect we both wasted too much time on it. I most likely would have never even bothered responding to your post except that when someone calls me stupid I tend to want to defend myself.

833 posted on 06/22/2005 9:29:57 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: Dave S
If you are going to quote others like Smartaleck in your post, make at least some effort to have your response have something to do with what you are quoting. Either that or just make your comment without quoting others.

You are being very dense about this, and I know you wont get what I am about to say but I will say it anyway.

The reason my response does not appear to have anything to do with the quote from Smartaleck is because I was trying to explain to Smartaleck that his/or her post had nothing to do with my original post. Hence the question I asked was :

How do you connect the above with the outcome of Terri being killed?

834 posted on 06/22/2005 9:53:37 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: Smartaleck
When did the Walker testimony take place? Why isn't it dated like the rest of the material?

The question is whether the bone scan was available to the Schindlers before something like 2002. I see no answer to that here but haven't time to study the document.

835 posted on 06/22/2005 11:00:55 AM PDT by T'wit (Kreuttner's Third Law: "If you don't think about something hard enough, it becomes unthinkable.)
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To: blueriver

My point was that your comment did not have anything to do with the comment you posted of smartalecks. It made no sense. Since you posted both together, one would assume that you thought they did.


836 posted on 06/22/2005 11:40:04 AM PDT by Dave S
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To: Dave S

I give up.


837 posted on 06/22/2005 11:45:12 AM PDT by blueriver
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To: Freedom Dignity n Honor; blueriver

I found the section I have referred to many times. The footnote that Wolfson made is made because the Schindlers had since changed their minds.

Initially, as you will see below, in court testimony, they said they would keep Terri alive even if she expressed the wish that she be allowed to die rather than live in her current condition.

The Schindlers also initially testified that they would permit amputations of her limbs.

The footnote to the Wolfson report was made because they later realized how gruesome that sounded and they changed their minds.

Here is the section taken directly from the Wolfson Report which was submitted to Jeb Bush; both sides liked and trusted him more than any of the other guardian ad litems.

"Testimony provided by members of the Schindler family included very personal statements about their desire and intention to ensure that Theresa remain alive. Throughout the course of the litigation, deposition and trial testimony by members of the Schindler family voiced the disturbing belief that they would keep Theresa alive at any and all costs. Nearly gruesome examples were given, eliciting agreement by family members that in the event Theresa should contract diabetes and subsequent gangrene in each of her limbs, they would agree to amputate each limb, and would then, were she to be diagnosed with heart disease, perform open heart surgery. There was additional, difficult testimony that appeared to establish that despite the sad and undesirable condition of Theresa, the parents still derived joy from having her alive, even if Theresa might not be at all aware of her environment given the persistent vegetative state. Within the testimony, as part of the hypotheticals presented, Schindler family members stated that even if Theresa had told them of her intention to have artificial nutrition withdrawn, they would not do it. Throughout this painful and difficult trial, the family acknowledged that Theresa was in a diagnosed persistent vegetative state."

http://home.comcast.net/~trinity_tx/wolfson.htm


838 posted on 06/22/2005 12:06:16 PM PDT by Peach
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To: T'wit

"When did the Walker testimony take place? Why isn't it dated like the rest of the material?"

Why? Dunno, it's only excerpts from a whole lot of testimony.
Here's one source....not sure if it's complete.
DR. WALKER'S DEPOSITION-----11/21/2003
http://www.hospicepatients.org/dr-walker-t-schiavo-bone-scan-deposition.txt


839 posted on 06/22/2005 1:00:51 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Peach

"The footnote that Wolfson made is made because the Schindlers had since changed their minds."

Can they do that? MS changed his mind, apparently, and many feel that was just WRONG! LOL


840 posted on 06/22/2005 1:02:25 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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