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Doctor: Schiavo Autopsy Conclusions Flawed
NewsMax ^ | 6/19/05 | Carl Limbacher

Posted on 06/19/2005 6:04:50 PM PDT by wagglebee

Dr. William Hammesfahr, nominated for a Nobel Prize for his work in Medicine, has been recognized by agents for Medicare, the federal government, and others for new approaches to helping the brain injured.

Dr. Hammesfahr has been identified in helping patients with chronic brain injuries from many causes actually leave long term disability, and return to work.

Dr. Hammesfahr was identified the first physician to restore deficits caused by stroke.

Dr. Hammesfahr has released the following statement in response to the autopsy report on Terri Schindler Schiavo:

We have seen a lot on the autopsy of Terri Schindler Schiavo in recent days, that I feel needs to be addressed. To ignore these comments will allow future 'Terri Schiavo's' to die needlessly after the wishes of clinicians and family are ignored.

Considering that there were so many physicians and therapists who were willing to step forward to treat Terri Schiavo, from university based practitioners to those in private practice, it clearly shows that the mainstream medical community across the board, those involved in treating patients, knew that they could help Terri.

The record must be set straight. As we noted in the press, there was no heart attack, or evident reason for this to have happened (and certainly not of Terri's making).

Unlike the constant drumbeat from the husband, his attorneys, and his doctors, the brain tissue was not dissolved, with a head of just spinal fluid. In fact, large areas were "relatively preserved."

The purpose of the therapies offered by so many, from major universities, brain injury centers, and from private practice physicians, is to improve and restore quality of life, and function, which the mainstream medical community clearly tried to get to her.

I have had a chance to look at Dr. Nelson's analysis of the brain tissue, and essentially, as a clinician, these are my thoughts.

The autopsy results confirmed my opinion and Dr. Maxfield's opinions, that the frontal areas of the brains, the areas that deal with awareness and cognition were relatively intact. To use Dr. Nelson's words, "relatively preserved." In fact, the relay areas from the frontal and front temporal regions of the brain, to the spinal cord and the brain stem, by way of the basal ganglia, were preserved, thus the evident responses which she was able to express to her family and to the clinicians seeing her or viewing her videotape. The Spect scan confirmed these areas were functional and not scar tissue, and that was apparently also confirmed on Dr. Nelson's review of the slides. Dr. Maxfield's estimates of retained brain weight were apparently accurate, although there may have been some loss of brain weight due to the last two weeks of dehydration.

Dr. Maxfield and myself both emphasized that she was a woman trapped in her body, similar to a child with cerebral palsy, and that was born out by the autopsy, showing greater injury in the motor and visual centers of the brain. Obviously, the pathologists comments that she could not see were not borne out by reality, and thus his assessment must represent sampling error. The videotapes clearly showed her seeing, and even Dr. Cranfoed, for the husband, commented to her that, when she could see the balloon, she could follow it with her eyes as per his request.

That she could not swallow was obviously not borne out by the reality that she was swallowing her saliva, about 1.5 liters per day of liquid, and the clinical swallowing tests done by Dr. Young and Dr. Carpenter. Thus, there appears to be some limitations to the clinical accuracy of an autopsy in evaluating function.

With respect to the issue of trauma, that certainly does not appear to be answered adequately. Some of the types of trauma that are suspected were not adequately evaluated in this assessment. Interestingly, both myself and at least one neurologist for the husband testified to the presence of neck injuries. The issue of a forensic evaluation for trauma, is highly specialized. Hence the wish of the family to have observers which was refused by the examiner.

Ultimately, based on the clinical evidence and the autopsy results, an aware woman was killed.

s/Dr. W. Hammesfahr

[Dr. Hammesfahr was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine and Physiology in 1999. The Nomination was for work started in 1994. In 2000, this work resulted in approval for the first patent in history granted for the treatment of neurological diseases including coma, stroke, brain injury, cerebral palsy, hypoxic injuries and other neurovascular disorders with medications that restore blood flow to the brain. It was extended to treat successfully disabilities including ADD, ADHD, Dyslexia, Tourette's and Autism as well as behaviorally and emotionally disturbed children, seizures and severe migraines.]


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dailynutjob; emotionallydisabled; euthanasia; fraud; hammesfahr; nobellaureate; nominatedbyhismama; schiavoautopsy; swindlers; terrischiavo; williamhammesfahr; worldsgreatestdoctor; wppff
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To: blueriver; Peach
but will take your word for it.

Not so quick. She did not provide the Schindlers' testimony that they had seen the bone scan previously. She provided Judge Greer's claim that they had access to it previously. Once again, she is presenting the allegations as proof that the allegations are true.

761 posted on 06/21/2005 11:18:55 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: cyncooper
Speaking of ghouls...

That's a disgusting thing to say. I don't see that when I look at Terri's photos. I think she was a lovely lady.

762 posted on 06/21/2005 11:26:13 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: ClancyJ
Now of course there will be a gnashing(sp?) of teeth over my adding these points to the sterling thread of facts - but too bad.

Huh?

~yawn~

Your constant "we" as if you maintain some ground I do not share is more than tiresome. It's plain facts matter not a whit to you as you prefer to wallow in an emotional orgasm.

763 posted on 06/21/2005 11:26:26 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: BykrBayb

I was referring to the poster, not the pictures.

As I'm sure you know.


764 posted on 06/21/2005 11:29:28 AM PDT by cyncooper
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To: cyncooper; Future Useless Eater

No, you weren't clear about that. So you were calling Future Useless Eater a ghoul? Why? Because he showed those photos of Terri? What is ghoulish about showing Terri's photos?


765 posted on 06/21/2005 11:32:11 AM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: cyncooper
"I hope the post I just scrolled past upthread referring to different levels of blindness sees your point. They are missing the fact that that part of her brain was g-o-n-e. This was not some opthalmological phenomenon that corrective lenses could address in "an otherwise healthy young woman" as the prattling goes."

The post you revered to was mine.

No..I'm not saying that Terri needed glasses to correct her eye site. I'm pointing out that when people are "blind" that does not mean that they are in total darkness as myth would sometimes imply.

Some that are considered "blind" can see levels of light and darkness and can see shadows..such as a balloon passing for example. Just because one's occipital area of the brain is damaged does not mean that there is zero information getting through.

766 posted on 06/21/2005 11:57:50 AM PDT by Earthdweller (US descendant of French Protestants_"Where there is life, there is hope"..Terri Schindler)
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To: Earthdweller

Your post does nothing to support forced euthanasia, so it will be declared false.


767 posted on 06/21/2005 12:04:39 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: cyncooper
After setting up your series of strawmen out you come with this nonsense? I said nothing of the sort.

Ok - you lost me on that reply - what did I say that you said that you didn't say?

768 posted on 06/21/2005 12:13:09 PM PDT by blueriver
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To: DJ MacWoW
"Thogmartin and Nelson seemed to try to make it clear that they couldn't confirm PVS or minimally concious despite what the press is saying."

Well, a lot of people are trying to use the opinions to make a point rather than just quote the opinion of fact as it may be.

Dealing with absolutes involving the human body is always a precarious position and why I have reservations about psychiatry. In the end it's an opinion based on a preponderance of evidence or probabilities.

There's a lot of info about Terri both in historical treatment and observations and those of the coroner.

My sense is she "probably" was pvs....the mileage of others may vary.
769 posted on 06/21/2005 1:52:47 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: DJ MacWoW; Peach
"but the jury awarded MS and Terri millions of dollars in the lawsuit against the doctors who hadn't diagnosed her low potassium levels and then they reduced the $$ because of Terri's responsibility in causing her cardiac arrest.
Which the autopsy does not support."

I'm not a lawyer but, my sense is first and foremost MS sued because doctors who were caring for her didn't foresee and prevent her "episode." It doesn't matter, really what the cause was, they were negligent.

Imagine your kid being driven to a ball game by a neighbor. The neighbor is drunk and runs a red light and your kid is killed. You sue the neighbor because they ran a red light when in fact they were impaired. Regardless of what was the cause of the death, it remains that you entrusted your kid to a neighbor and that neighbor was the reason the kid is dead regardless of whether you attribute it to the drink or the running the red light.

In Terri's case i'm thinking the Dr.s, their atty's and insurance people decided the DR's should have known something, they didn't and she experienced a cardiac arrest regardless of the cause. That point was conceded.

As a mitigating, the reward was reduced "just in case" it was Bulemia and she contributed to the cause." Being that Michael didn't press the issue further, it's reasonable that he decided to accept that the Dr's were willing to concede that they were negligent regardless of the cause.
770 posted on 06/21/2005 2:06:40 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Peach
"But again, an autopsy is not able to detect that someone suffered cardiac arrest. But attending physicians, and the ambulance staff on hand, all said that's what happened."

You have a lot of patience. Bless you for trying to get this point across for the what, 1200th time?
771 posted on 06/21/2005 2:08:47 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: cyncooper

"They are missing the fact that that part of her brain was g-o-n-e."

Could that be a problem? Apparently to some it isn't. Why? Lord only knows.


772 posted on 06/21/2005 2:10:40 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: cyncooper; Peach

"Your efforts are truly appreciated."

Amen...that's why she's a Peach. ;-)


773 posted on 06/21/2005 2:11:53 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: blueriver

"How do you connect the above with the outcome of Terri being killed?"

I don't. Never have. Others were attributing motives to MS, I was was just pointing out that the parents could be motived by the same.


774 posted on 06/21/2005 2:17:00 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: wagglebee

"No, but it DOES MEAN that he has some form of perceptive sense that lets him know where the keyboard is."

You know the difference between cause and effect versus associated events.

"The rooster crows, the sun rises."


775 posted on 06/21/2005 2:22:45 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Smartaleck

So what you are saying is that someone in a PVS still has the cognitive ability to know to follow the motion of something that she is not even able to see?


776 posted on 06/21/2005 2:27:38 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: Saundra Duffy
For one thing, the reason Michael Schiavo was awarded all that dough was found to be false

What was that one thing that you are referring to that was found false? Bulimia? Autopsy doesnt disprove it and autopsy doenst answer the question of why she went into cardiac arrest. The physician being sued settled so it doesnt make any difference there. once settled, its settled. The Schindlers cant sue on behalf of Terri, they cant sue on behalf of the doctor, they cant sue on behalf of the US government, they can only sue on their own rights and they dont have any basis on which to sue. Anyone can threaten to sue but unless you have "legal standing" you cant sue. The Schindlers dont have legal standing. I can threaten to sue you for being an ignorant fool and raising my blood pressure but I dont have any legal standing to do so.

777 posted on 06/21/2005 2:32:45 PM PDT by Dave S
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To: ClancyJ; blueriver; Peach
If I may try to inject. Please consider this example.

All red people die. That's the law. All blue people live.
If the people who we deem to be experts in the field of color deem person X to be red, if the judge, supported by other judges accept this determination the results is death.
You may find some "experts" who think it looks blue to them but the preponderance of evidence says red and the courts have ruled accordingly.
The fact that you don't like the law or the law is stupid, or the law is wrong morally, does not negate the findings of fact.
It's the same with abortion. The law may be bad, it may be morally wrong but a person having a "legal" abortion doesn't change the facts.

Just because people argue the facts does not reveal their personal feelings, it does not reveal their motivations other than to seek the truth, it does not indicate their reaction to a most emotional issue, and it does not mean they endorse one side or the other.

The 1000's of lines of bandwidth here on FR will go for naught until people can separate these issues in their own mind. IMHO
778 posted on 06/21/2005 2:36:19 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: wagglebee

"No, but it DOES MEAN that he has some form of perceptive sense that lets him know where the keyboard is."

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then.


779 posted on 06/21/2005 2:38:06 PM PDT by Smartaleck
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To: Peach
The court record is filled with testimony from doctors and nurses. But maybe they were all in on the conspiracy too. Sheesh.

Dont you know its Tom Cruise and all the Scientologists that are behind the conspiracy? At least that is what the wackiest say. Its them and the just unfrozen NAZI's including Himmler and Martin Borman.

780 posted on 06/21/2005 2:42:23 PM PDT by Dave S
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