Where Oslo failed, retreat will succeed - Rice

Jerusalem Newswire ^ | June 19th, 2005

[SJackson]

This entire withdrawal folly was sold in Israel on the proposition that the US made certain tradeoffs with Israel. That Bush had promised American support for Israel's position on keeping parts of the West Bank and laughing off the absurd "Right of Return" demands.

I think a unilateral solution makes sense. But you're right, the administration lied to Sharon, and Sharon lied to the Israeli people. Neither the Sharon nor the Bush admistration will write the final chapter here.

And of course the Arabs are never punished, they have the oil, and it will take a lot more than a few thousand 9/11 deaths to change policy in that regard.

[SJackson]

Someone tell me just how what these twits are doing is any better than what Kerry would have done?

When you get a reasoned answer from someone, ping me. I won't be holding my breath.

[timsbella]

-- It may not work. But it's the only remaining chance for peace. --

I agree, I do. I just don't feel heartened when I think of how they crushed Nixon, and outright murdered Sadat.

I also believe that these things could only be possible within a Republican/conservative government.

[Sabramerican]

Israel is giving something substantial getting nothing in return.

You can see it as a unilateral Israeli move, I assure you the Arabs do not. As in Lebanon, they see it as a withdrawal under fire.

And if the Arabs can cause Israel- now twice- to withdraw under fire, then Jihad on: to Jerusalem and beyond.

[timsbella]

--The Arabs never lose. They are never punished. They can try to destroy Israel over and over and over. When they fail, things go back to square one- or worst from Israel's point of view.--

We've been around almost 6000 years. The Palis maybe 60. As ever, we'll be patient, true to our G-d and this empire too shall pass into history with the Babylonians, the Romans, the Nazis, the Communists....

[SJackson]

You can see it as a unilateral Israeli move, I assure you the Arabs do not. As in Lebanon, they see it as a withdrawal under fire.

You're right. In their minds. A victory for Hamas, just as Lebanon was a victory for Hizbollah. Not necessarily in fact, but time will tell. I'm not convinced Israel has the will to pull off a truely unilateral separation. And if they can the US will scream almost as loudly as the Euros.

[porkchops 4 mahound]

Everybody involved knows that is exactly the goal of the so called "Palestinians" and of the entire islamic world.

No organized government on earth including the USA has the b@lls to stand up and say no to the islamists.

Realpolitik in action, oil, money, power.

If Israel had 70% of the known and producing reserves of oil, it'd would be different.

So Hitler's "work" is happily done by one and all, active or tacit.

Lies and D@mned Lies SOP while the murder of innocents continues apace.

[Sabramerican]

the administration lied to Sharon, and Sharon lied to the Israeli people

You know it. I know it. Every thinking person who cares knows.

Usually, "they lied" comes after the fact when it's too late.

The big question.

It's not too late. Why is Israel still going through with this?

You don't think maybe "Israel's best friend ever" is exerting such anti-Israeli pressure that hasn't been seen since Eisenhower?

Lucky for supporters of Israel that Kerry and the Arab loving Democrats weren't elected.

[Zivasmate]

I just don't get it either. There is no doubt that bush and
his administration were more Israel-friendly than any previous American administration during the first term. But then things began to change. What is the explanation? Who got to Bush? Many Israel supporters thought that Powell's resignation would make things even better for Israel. It has not. Why has Bush turned so sharply in the other direction? Is it because the price of oil keeps rising? Is it trying to keep his "Arab allies" in line in the War on Terror? Is it all about Tony Blair pressure?

There must be some answers here, because this abrupt and radical change by Bush makes no sense. Is he testing Abbas?
What is the grand strategy here? What does the US have to gain from a Palestinian State? And why has that realization
occurred so suddenly and recently tot his Administration?
I'm not sure I could vote for Bush if he were up for re-election, which of course, he's not.

My hunch, and it's just a hunch is that James Baker got to
him. And what is Baker's role in the administration? Perhaps coordinating certain policy positions and how Bush
can get them through Congress. Baker has always been seen as a "conciliator".Just a guess, but IMO, Baker is helping Bush in some capacity, and Israel is being offered as the sacrificial lamb.

[Alouette]

it's the only remaining chance for peace.

Um, no.

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.

WARNING: This is a high volume ping list

[Sabramerican]

Anti Israel Jimmy Carter didn't get the opportunity to have a second term to screw Israel.

Anti Israel George H W Bush didn't get the opportunity to have a second term to screw Israel.

Maybe George W Bush learned.

Except for some rhetoric, now immediately reversed, and not meeting with Arafat- but Abbas, his 30 year plus chief deputy is a courageous and peaceful man- in retrospect, what made Bush so pro-Israeli in his first term?

He, after a time, fooled me though. Shame on me.

[Celtjew Libertarian]

Israel is giving something substantial getting nothing in return.

But it is giving itself something in return: A defined border. The Arabs and EUroweenies may shriek, but it creates a de facto Palestinian state, in which the Palestinians will be forced by circumstance to act as and take the responsibilities of a nation, instead of hiding behind self-created refuge status.

I can't think of anyone better suited to draw the borders, in order to keep Israel secure, than Ariel Sharon.

[SJackson]

But it is giving itself something in return: A defined border....I can't think of anyone better suited to draw the borders, in order to keep Israel secure, than Ariel Sharon.

I agree completely. Whether Israel defines and sticks by her borders will be up to future administrations, as will the willingness of the US and other nations to recognize them. But hopefully they'll be defined. Liberally, just in case the palestinians decide to "negotioate" in 20 or 60 years.

[SJackson]

There is no doubt that bush and his administration were more Israel-friendly than any previous American administration during the first term.

Certainly no more supportive than the Reagan administration. Or Nixon. And the GWB legacy isn't yet written. I can't say definitively he was any better than Clinton.

[Sabramerican]

Absolute nonsense.

You mean two "Palestinian" states (in addition to Jordan). And Israel must then accommodate a corridor between the two on either side. And jobs- Israel will still be expected to employ them.

And the Arabs will continue in their demands, Jerusalem, etc.

Is the Lebanese border now defined. Do any Arabs accept that border?

Every now and then you read a story of some deranged individual taking a knife to themselves amputating this and that for some purpose only they understand. That's what Israel is now doing to itself- with her "friends" cheering them on.

[Sabramerican]

According to a certification by the UN, Israel has totally withdrawn from Lebanon.

So without question, Hazballah should be considered an enemy of the West as it -whenever able- attempts to strike Israel from that border.

Has the West reacted? Hazballah gains more legitimacy every day.

Truth is that while the Arabs nations don't except any borders for Israel, neither does most of the West. With the US, I'm afraid, creeping towards that universal position.

[GladesGuru]

"I don't know if it will work, but I think it's the only thing outside of outright war that will."

Shouldn't that "will" be changed to "might"?

And may I ask what is wrong with a war? The Muslim Mid East population understands both power and vengeance. Until one side decisively defeats the other, peace in the Mid East won't occur.

It is time the Arabs accept Israel, unless they want to become Crispy Critters. Exclude the Egypt populations - they will be fish food in the Red Sea after Israel nukes the Aswan High Dam.