The Coming and Going of Glaciers: A New Alpine Melt Theory

Der Spiegel ^ | May 23, 2005 | By Hilmar Schmundt

[aculeus]

Gee, could all those very smart anti-business bigots be wrong?

[Mad Dawgg]

"Gee, could all those very smart anti-business bigots be wrong?"

I am assured by a local global warming enthusiast (supposedly has a degree in climatology) that Southern Ohio's drastically higher temperatures are due to automobile exhaust.

Current temp here in Southern Ohio is 62 degrees Fahrenheit on June 18th 2005.

Me thinks someone is full of B.S.!!!

[fivekid]

Ping:)

[Bluedaddy]

This lends to the theory that the Earth works in cycles, probably not the case since nothing BC (before Clinton/s) matters. We'll need to have someone in Congress call for an investigation into these startling new revalations...

[Wuli]

Everything - the energy of the sun, earth's climate, earthquake and volcanic activity, human civilization - moves in cycles. The ancients did not develop the zodiac to tell your fortune or decide when to plant crops.

[YOUGOTIT]

Reading a lot of Roman History, if the ice was there, as it is today, the movement of Roman merchants and Roman military would have been greatly curtailed. Armies were moved back and forth with a speed that would indicate that the ice as we know it today was not there.

[muir_redwoods]

I often read that the earth is warmer now than it has been since 1500 or 1300 or some other far away date. My question is what made it so warm then? I know cattle contribute a bit but there could not have been as many cattle then as now and there certainly wasn't anywhere near as much industry.

We know so little about solar cycles and the sun in general. It seems pointlessly arrogant to assume that we are the cause of the climate change (if there is any). It reminds me of the rooster who thinks his crowing is what brings on the dawn.

[ConsentofGoverned]

HOT SUN- COLD SUN - the SUN's energy output is not a constant and during very active cycles (like now) Earth heats up a little - simple fact that is left out of GLOBAL WARMING IS man made.. unless you think the SUN is influenced by your gas guzzling SUV. Leftist econuts have no problem avoiding the simple answer: SUN cycles.

[Socratic]

Ya mean Hannibal's elephants didn't have to use snow shovels?

[bboop]

I think it is exactly that --(the rooster that brings on the dawn)-- to assume that such a huge (earth)system could be negatively impacted by something so insignificant to geological events (cow farts, humans, bbq's). Do the data (global warming/ cars) correlate? Yes, perhaps. Is car exhaust causative? It is so highly unlikely. This is an interesting study, in the Alps. Always good when existing theories are challenged.

[ClearCase_guy]

I often read that the earth is warmer now than it has been since 1500 or 1300 or some other far away date

From Wikipedia:

The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) or Medieval Climate Optimum was an unusually warm period during the European Medieval period, lasting from about the 10th century to about the 14th century. It has been argued a better name would be the Medieval Climatic Anomaly.

Initial research on the MWP and LIA was largely done in Europe, where the phenomenon was most obvious and clearly documented.

It was initially believed that the temperature changes were global. However, this view has been questioned by some scientists, amongst them Bradley and Jones, 1993; Hughes and Diaz, 1994; Crowley and Lowery, 2000. The 2001 IPCC report summarises this research, saying: "…current evidence does not support globally synchronous periods of anomalous cold or warmth over this timeframe, and the conventional terms of 'Little Ice Age' and 'Medieval Warm Period' appear to have limited utility in describing trends in hemispheric or global mean temperature changes in past centuries"

During this time wine grapes were grown in Europe and southern Britain (however, factors other than climate strongly influence the commercial success of vineyards; and the time of greatest extent of mediaeval vineyards falls outside the MWP). The Vikings took advantage of ice-free seas to colonize Greenland and other outlying lands of the far north. The period was followed by the Little Ice Age (LIA), a period of cooling that lasted until the 19th century when the current period of global warming began.

[Fiji Hill]

I often read that the earth is warmer now than it has been since 1500 or 1300 or some other far away date. My question is what made it so warm then? I know cattle contribute a bit but there could not have been as many cattle then as now and there certainly wasn't anywhere near as much industry.

An interesting question, since Ariana Huffington blames SUV's for global warming--and there weren't a lot of those around in the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries.

[kabar]

Pacemaker of the Ice Ages

In 1976, scientists at Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory spearheaded a project called CLIMAP (Clint: Long-range Investigation Mapping and Prediction) to map the history of the oceans and climate. They discovered that ice ages begin or end, almost like clockwork, every 11,500 years. It's a dependable, predictable, natural cycle. Pacemaker of the Ice Ages, they called it.

[moog]

I often read that the earth is warmer now than it has been since 1500 or 1300 or some other far away date. My question is what made it so warm then? I know cattle contribute a bit but there could not have been as many cattle then as now and there certainly wasn't anywhere near as much industry.

It's that &*^&*^&*^&*^( leftover dinosaur poop.

[Mike Darancette]

They discovered that ice ages begin or end, almost like clockwork, every 11,500 years.

Since there is still year around ice in Antarctica and Greenland we are, by definition, still in an ice age and have been for over 1,000,000 years.

During this time there are periodic advances and withdrawals of continental glaciers to which the 11,500 year cycle refers. And we are now past due.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks fivekid. "new research suggests that in the time of the Roman Empire, they were smaller than today. And 7,000 years ago they probably weren't around at all. A group of climatologists have come up with a controversial new theory on how the Alps must have looked over the ages." Heh... "controversial" my keister. There's nothing controversial about it. Global warming shills should be dragged out and strung up. Figuratively. I guess.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[kabar]

we are, by definition, still in an ice age and have been for over 1,000,000 years.

Whose definition?

[glorgau]

This is ridiculous. There are no "cycles", global warming is caused by Republicans, and George Bush in particular.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks for that link Kabar. That "pacemaker" isn't a pacemaker at all; for one thing, it isn't like clockwork, not in the least, and that was known from data gathered before and after that study; for another, it merely looked at (selective) data in order to (erroneously) model glaciations in a way that would make them nice a regular and predictable.

It would be nice to think that they are nice and regular and predictable. And it would be nice to attribute them to Maunder Minimums (solar activity). The world does cool down when the sun dims a bit (which it does, but the "cycle" isn't regular) and warms up when the sun brightens a bit (which it has been doing). But there's no way to get massive glaciation with gradualist processes and long term trends.

[Mike Darancette]

Wikipedia:

An ice age is a period of long-term downturn in the temperature of Earth's climate, resulting in an expansion of the continental ice sheets, polar ice sheets and mountain glaciers ("glaciation"). Glaciologically, ice age is often used to mean a period of ice sheets in the northern and southern hemispheres; by this definition we are still in an ice age (because the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets still exist). More colloquially, when speaking of the last few million years, ice age is used to refer to colder periods with extensive ice sheets over the North American and European continents: in this sense, the last ice age ended about 10,000 years ago. This article will use the term ice age in the former, glaciological, sense; and use the term 'glacial periods' for colder periods during ice ages and 'interglacial' for the warmer periods.

During the last few million years there have been many glacial periods, occurring at 40–100,000 year frequencies. These are the best studied. There have been four major ice ages in the further past.