W.House rejects lawmakers' call for Iraq pullout

Yahoo News ^ | NHAntiMassRedRebel

[NHAntiMassRedRebel]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Critics of the Iraq war proposed a congressional resolution on Thursday calling for a U.S. troop withdrawal in a reflection of growing American unease, a proposal swiftly rejected by the White House and the Pentagon.

[DLfromthedesert]

Karl Zinmeister got back recently and he would beg to differ with you. The major problem is that the president is not giving briefings about the progress of the war, and according to people I know who are serving there, there is a LOT of progress, and they don't want to leave until the job is finished.

AllThingsMilitary, indeed.

[NHAntiMassRedRebel]

I agree with you that this isn't a "quagmire" by any means at all. We lost 3,000+ in a single battle in Korea and had more injuries weekly in 'Nam than the entire OIF rotations.

Just the same, set a deadline, work like hell to get it done by then, and get the hell out. Or go back to a draft.

[listenhillary]

How's India doing again?

[misty4jc]

The Battalion my husband is with now is in OIF 3...this is their 3rd trip over there.

[NHAntiMassRedRebel]

These are people that will sleep at any chance that they get. Most of them would prefer to be career dumpster divers than have a job.

Afghanistan is coming along nicely. We will be out of there alot sooner than Iraq because those people are born soldiers and workers. Iraqis are lazy as HELL. And as long as they know that we have no end in sight to the deployments, they won't take us seriously.

[SC Swamp Fox]

reduce OPSTEMPO or go back to a draft.

Let me guess, Army? Air Force?

Welcome to the real world. The Navy and Marine Corps has been deploying at that tempo since the mid '80s. I wasn't surprised that the Navy had a carrier sitting within striking distance of Afganistan the day after 9/11. That's because they routinely deploy to forward locations.

I guess you want to go back to the good old days when most Army units spent their entire existance at stateside bases practicing. Hardship was considered a couple of weeks in the boonies away from momma. And don't give me any crap about how tough things are in Germany and Korea. The Navy/Marine Corp call that Shore Duty and it is considered a vacation after doing a tour of duty assigned to a deploying unit or ship.

[fr_freak]

The only reason "democracy" (cause we're not really a democracy) thrived in America is because we had a long standing intellectual tradition brought over from Europe which encouraged these ideas.

I don't think this is entirely true. The American Revolution was more than just a war - it brought forth a unique form of government based on a revolutionary philosophy, one where ultimate authority (after God) rested with the people. Yes, it was partly a coalescence of ideas derived from the English all the way back to the ancient Greeks, but it was still a huge leap from the primarily monarchichal systems at the time. So, if we were to apply your way of thinking to the Europeans who came over to the Americas, we could say that there was no way that people who were used to being ruled by kings and aristocracy would be able to accept a republican form of government, yet we know that they did. Furthermore, the world is a much smaller place now than it was, and even people in remote areas of the world are exposed to those same ideas even if they've never been implemented in that region before. Any Iraqi with access to newspapers or television would be pretty well familiar with the US, as well as other republics.

[El Gato]

I'd love to put troops on the border, but that isn't going to happen because of that little Constitution thing,

The Constitution does not forbid putting troops on the border. If anything, it envisions that's where they should be. The Constitution authorizing calling up the militia to "execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions". Surely the regular or reserve (select militia) military could be used to repel Invasions as well.

You may be confusing the Posse Commitatus act with the Constitution. It's a common error. But even that only forbids use of the regular military to enforce the laws, and originally applied to state and local laws, not federal ones. The Act is full of holes anyway, because as Congress made it, they could modify it, and have, with numerous exceptions.

Unless you can point to which section and paragraph of the Constitution forbids putting troops on the border?

[NHAntiMassRedRebel]

Let it go, dude. You're out of your league. I don't even have to respond to you any longer. I know too much about you already.

[No One Special]

Would you kindly provide me a link to this info about the Soviets and Gulf War I? Thank you.

[Howlin]

No, we did not.

[Egon]

...as long as they know that we have no end in sight to the deployments, they won't take us seriously.

If what you're saying is true (and I have no reason to doubt you, aside from their election turnout and recruitment numbers) then we have a seriously fine tightrope to walk: how to pressure them, without creating an opportunity for the terrorists to simply wait us out.

[El Gato]

Witness the "War on Poverty", "War on Drugs" and all the other endless "wars" on free citizens.

This one is a real war, with enemies that are trying to kill us, and have.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Unfortunately, a deadline lets the baddies know when we will be gone, so they can prepare for that day. Considering that Iraq is now caught between two hostile powers (Syria and Iran) who are more than willing to subvert the elected government of Iraq, it is best to just wait and see.

The situation here is very similar to our occupation of Germany after big 2. You oughta go back and read some of the editorials news stories then. If that was the only thing you had to go on, you could be forgiven for believing that we were losing - big time.

[AzaleaCity5691]

Is India our ally?

I mean really, what the hell has India ever done for us, and what have we ever done for them?

We spent the better part of 50 years supporting their biggest enemy.

And I wouldn't call India stable by any stretch of the imagination, over the years there have been several instances of infighting, for example, all the various seperatist groups which operate in the country.

The most likely scenario for WWIII is still India/Pakistan, and given that saber rattling will almost always get you elected (think about Vajpayee in the immediate aftermath of Indias first test since 1974), its a very serious danger.

[DLfromthedesert]

Mistakes are made in war. There are plenty of criticisms that are valid, but cutting an running is NOT an option. I know a LOT of military people that do not agree with your assessment.

[El Gato]

I got a question.....So when do we leave Iraq? What circumstances do we need to allow us to leave. If the President would outline some type of game plan we would be more inclined to be more patient.

I believe the President has outlined his plan, but not set a deadline. His plan is to train up enough Iraqies to defend the country against the terrorists, most of whom now seem to be from outside the country, and then leave, probably leaving training and logistics detachments behind for some time afterwards.