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Profound questions from the Schiavo case
Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | 6/16/05 | Katherine Kersten

Posted on 06/16/2005 6:53:51 AM PDT by rhema

. . .People of goodwill may disagree about Terri Schiavo's case. Yet as our society strays from its traditional belief in the essential dignity of every human life, we all must grapple with the implications of the notion that some lives are "not worth living."

Today, assisted suicide is lawful in Oregon. In the Netherlands, according to the New York Times, prosecutors no longer pursue cases against doctors who kill severely impaired babies after birth. The temptation to deal with the defective and incompetent by eliminating them is likely to grow as our society ages. Today, approximately 4.5 million Americans have Alzheimer's disease. In coming decades, projections suggest that about 40 percent of us will spend roughly 10 years in an infirm, demented condition. The way we deal with this situation will say much about us as a society.

Currently, the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum is staging an exhibit . . . called "Deadly Medicine: Creating the Master Race." It examines the idea of "lebensunwertes Leben" -- lives not worthy of life --which the Nazis used to justify their elimination of thousands deemed unfit to live: the retarded, the defective and the seriously ill.

Some German intellectuals championed this idea well before the Nazi era began. A 1920 book, for example, decried "the meticulous care shown to existences which are not just absolutely worthless" -- the disabled and deformed -- "but even of negative value." It called for applying the "healing remedy" of premature death, in order to "eliminat[e] those who were born unfit for life or who later became so."

Today, we must ensure that we ourselves are not tempted to start down this slippery slope --moved by free choice rather than totalitarian edict, and seduced by a shallow notion of "death with dignity."

(Excerpt) Read more at startribune.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; US: Minnesota
KEYWORDS: emotionallydisabled; getoverit; schiavo; swindlers; terrischiavo; wackjobs
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To: BykrBayb

So if I'm in a PVS, and according to my wishes my wife pulls the tube, she has murdered me?


121 posted on 06/16/2005 12:18:19 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Jibaholic
If you're suffering from depression, and you just want to die, and your wife kills you, is that murder? If you're bigoted against disabled people, and you currently think you'd rather be dead than disabled, and your wife causes you to become disabled then kills you, is that murder?

Cognitively disabled people have as much right and desire to live as anyone else. If you make a suicide murder pact with your wife in the event you ever become a member of a group you currently despise, and she carries it out, it's still murder.

122 posted on 06/16/2005 12:25:27 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: k2blader

And I shake my head...


123 posted on 06/16/2005 12:25:44 PM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< Impeach Judge Greer http://www.petitiononline.com/ijg520/petition.html)
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To: Jibaholic
You must be Catholic because I believe that faith in Jesus Christ is what gets you into Heaven.

What kind of faith is that? Faith that Jesus Christ wants you to kill your wife? Catholics aren't the only ones who disagree with that.

124 posted on 06/16/2005 12:27:34 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: BykrBayb
If you're bigoted against disabled people, and you currently think you'd rather be dead than disabled, and your wife causes you to become disabled then kills you, is that murder?

The autopsy already debunked the abuse theory. Let it go.

125 posted on 06/16/2005 12:29:49 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Jibaholic

No, it didn't.


126 posted on 06/16/2005 12:30:39 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: Jibaholic
you think people should never be allowed to remove life support

She was not on life support. If she was, I wouldn't have had a problem. Life support is oxygen or a machine that keeps the heart beating. Giving someone food and water is NOT considered life support in my view.

or create living wills.

I never said that...in fact I encouraged you to put your wishes in writing, so quit putting words in my mouth.

My point is that the marriage contract should assume the medical proxy contract.

My point is that MS broke the marriage contract by committing adultery, so in the eyes of the Lord, there was no marriage covenant between him and Terri, only a certificate issued by the State that was more worthless than the paper it was written on, hence the skepticism of his motives.

Even if you are completely 100% brain dead.

I am beginning to think you have already reached that point as you are totally incapable of basic comprehension. No dinner for you tonight buddy...

127 posted on 06/16/2005 12:33:49 PM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: ravingnutter
Suppose I were in a PVS. I've told my wife I want the tube pulled.

Scenario A: She pulls the tube, five years later she meets someone new and starts a new family.
Scenario B: The courts don't let her pull the tube. My body stays alive for decades. Now when she meets someone new five years later it is called adultery. But I don't want my wife to put her life on hold for decades while she fights a legal battle.

128 posted on 06/16/2005 12:36:27 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: BykrBayb
No, it didn't.

So it's all a conspiricy? They faked the autopsy report?

129 posted on 06/16/2005 12:37:15 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Jibaholic

Marriage vow doesn't have anything to do with medical care .

You are just cruising for trouble and you know it.


130 posted on 06/16/2005 12:37:39 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Democrats haven't had a new idea since Karl Marx.)
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To: Jibaholic

Back to the Bible verse, my wedding vows were to love, honor and obey. The Bible says that the husband is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church. There is no evidence of Michael's love for Terri.

The above poster is correct. Much spousal abuse does not leave lasting evidence except in the heart.


131 posted on 06/16/2005 12:38:27 PM PDT by goosie
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To: Jibaholic
But only two people know what happened between Terri and Micheal.

WRONG...he was living with another woman and had children with that woman, he broke his marriage vows to Terri in full public view.

132 posted on 06/16/2005 12:39:18 PM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: Jibaholic

There you go again, pretending my statement referred to something that was never said. Did you already forget what you said, or are you deliberately being dishonest?


133 posted on 06/16/2005 12:39:56 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: BykrBayb

You response was one post below mine! If you were referring to something else, then quote it to avoid confusion.


134 posted on 06/16/2005 12:42:05 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: ravingnutter
he was living with another woman and had children with that woman, he broke his marriage vows to Terri in full public view. I have to chain post this because no one will respond to it!

Suppose I were in a PVS. I've told my wife I want the tube pulled.

Scenario A: She pulls the tube, five years later she meets someone new and starts a new family.
Scenario B: The courts don't let her pull the tube. My body stays alive for decades. Now when she meets someone new five years later it is called adultery. But I don't want my wife to put her life on hold for decades while she fights a legal battle

135 posted on 06/16/2005 12:43:45 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Owl_Eagle
"I spell it MacKasparaitis... Grand Duke of the hip check."

Oh.

That's a lot of stuff to put on the back of one jersey, innit?

How are things in the Russian League with the NHL strike and all? Do you find that most Russians are a little xenophobic, and don't take kindly to folks of Scotch/Lithuanian mix?

Do you remember playing for the Islanders in '94 in Tampa and me nailing you with a coke after you lost 4-3 in overtime?

136 posted on 06/16/2005 12:44:39 PM PDT by Sam's Army (My neighbor gives drinking a bad name)
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To: Jibaholic
You: The autopsy already debunked the abuse theory.
Does that mean something else in your language?

Me: No, it didn't.
In English that means "No, it didn't."

Try to keep up.

137 posted on 06/16/2005 12:45:08 PM PDT by BykrBayb (Impeach Judge Greer - In memory of Terri Schindler <strike>Schiavo</strike> - www.terrisfight.org)
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To: goosie
The above poster is correct. Much spousal abuse does not leave lasting evidence except in the heart.

The fight for Terri was predicated on the spousal abuse being easily verified. Now that it has been debunked her supporters are claiming that abuse still took place and left no marks. If we are presume husbands are guilty of abuse even when the evidence shows otherwise then our society is in deep trouble.

138 posted on 06/16/2005 12:46:56 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Jibaholic
My point is that the marriage contract should assume the medical proxy contract.

Since when did a marriage contract allow for a spouse to sleep with and have children with another person? To think that every married couple is as "in love" as you and yours is silly. There are many spouses with less then honorable intentions towards their spouses. You are living in a dream world if you think a marriage contract is made out of gold. I am sure Laci Peterson and Nicole Simpson would not agree with you if they were able to talk from their graves.

139 posted on 06/16/2005 12:50:05 PM PDT by blueriver
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To: BykrBayb
Me: No, it didn't. In English that means "No, it didn't."

Ok, what abuse did the autopsy find?

If Terri was abused then I'm on your side. Let's prosecute Michael.

140 posted on 06/16/2005 12:50:16 PM PDT by Jibaholic (The facts of life are conservative - Margaret Thatcher)
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