The Folly of Our Age. The space shuttle.

National Review Online ^ | today | John Derbyshire

[Cogadh na Sith]

So, you think you will get a tax cut if they get rid of the shuttle?

No way!

They'll just give more of your money to single mothers!

The only thing that would be better than the shuttle is if they just launched money into space instead of giving to single mothers.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Having no practical justification for squirting so much of the nation’s wealth up into the stratosphere, our politicians — those (let us charitably assume there are some) with no financial or electoral interest in the big contractor corporations who feed off the shuttle — fall back on romantic appeals to Mankind’s Destiny.

When China has the ability to drop nuclear bombs on us from their moonbase, the author may re-assess his position.

Space development has always been about defence. Everything else is just gravy.

[bvw]

He's now a baron and lives in a castle, collecting the landrents from the villagers around him -- iirc. Europe. Lives down the road from the Ikea guys (again iirc).

[Rodney King]

Space development has always been about defence. Everything else is just gravy.

I see nothing to back that up. Instead of building a space station for ourselves and modern spacecraft and or moom/bases, we focus on the "international space station" and support the notion that a nation can't claim land in space. With the exception of launching spy satellites, the shuttle missions are not doing anything to boost national defense. Instead of testing lasers, etc. they bring little ant farms up into space.

[1Old Pro]

That would include space weapons capability

Couldn't the space shuttle use the arm to send an enemy satellite off course or attach some kind of mini-booster that could propel the satellite further into space? Even if we had that capibility do you think DOD would admit it?

[eartotheground]

The research in space is maddeningly circular, also. "We are studying the problem of bone loss in space so we can prevent bone loss in space" etc. The "growing crystals in space to produce purer medicines etc." is widely considered to be a fraud. The only application of manned space flight that seems even potentially economically viable is space tourism. Maybe once space tourism gets going other applications will follow. Rutan has the right idea. NASA doesn't.

[Final Authority]

WRT 12 the cheapest way to get a lot of stuff into space was the Saturn V system that was scuttled by the government and NASA after there was much enlightenment in media that Germans, possibly Nazis, were the engineering force behind the Moon missions, which was correct BTW.

The Saturn however was not the best way to get stuff back from space. The Air Force needed research into solid rocket boosters for the MX so that was part of the plan with NASA. Newly developed C-C materials for re-entry purposes was part of the development plan as well. They were piggy-backed and worked out.

Overall, what I regret, is that about a generation and a half of talent was not mentored on manned space technology as the shuttle has been the system that has required so much money to maintain and fly over the years. The loss is the thousands of technical people who have done other things than work on space technology and the generations of others that will not have the chance, if the shuttle flies again.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Digital technology and the internet are the most famous lagecies of the space program. Before the space program, cameras weighed over 400 pounds.

The space program began as a response to Sputnik. Then accelerated over who would have the first man in space. Then who would be the first to walk on the moon.

I agree that there is a lot not to like about the Shuttle.

[Rodney King]

Digital technology and the internet are the most famous lagecies of the space program. Before the space program, cameras weighed over 400 pounds.

The internet? Are you serious? Give me a break. The internet had nothing to do with the space program. Are you also seriously suggesting that if not for the space program we would have no digital technology?

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Yes I am. The internet would still be 50 to 100 years in the future without the space program.

Here's a site that summarizes some of the spinoffs of the space program.

[Rodney King]

The internet would still be 50 to 100 years in the future without the space program.

That's one of the most laughable things that I have ever read on this site.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

You also don't know that the internet uses digital technology.

[Rodney King]

You also don't know that the internet uses digital technology.

Right, and without NASA there never would have been digitial technology. Sure.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

So now you're going to explain how vacuum tube network servers and routers work?

[Rodney King]

So now you're going to explain how vacuum tube network servers and routers work?

You are falling victim to the idea that technology developed for a specific need, and later adapted to another need, would not have been developed by the people with the second need if it was never developed by the first need. That is just silly. If we never went into space, we would still have vaccum tube network servers and routers.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

I give up. Maybe this will help.

[StormEye]

"Columbus did not find the riches, spices, nor the faster route to the Far East upon which the Spanish rulers had banked. He found hot chili peppers"

He only found the other half of the world.

[Rodney King]

I give up to. I don't know what you are trying to show me... that's not the point. My point is that technologies like the internet would have been inventeted regardless.