Conservatives, liberals align against Patriot Act

The Washington Times ^ | June 14, 2005 | James G. Lakely

[neverdem]

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The Washington Timeswww.washingtontimes.com

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Conservatives, liberals align against Patriot Act

By James G. Lakely
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published June 14, 2005

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Conservative groups have found common ground with the liberal American Civil Liberties Union in their opposition to the USA Patriot Act and pledge to wage a high-profile fight against it, claiming even its renewal is shrouded in secrecy.

    Former Rep. Bob Barr, who led conservative efforts to impeach President Clinton, is leading a group called "Patriots to Restore Checks and Balances" that is focused exclusively on opposing the renewal of the Patriot Act.

    The effort also has the enthusiastic support of three of the most influential conservatives in Washington, Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform, David Keene of the American Conservative Union and Phyllis Schlafly of the Eagle Forum.

    "They support this effort because the true conservatives understand the Constitution and understand when it is threatened," Mr. Barr said. "They are not your neo-cons and typical Washington insiders. This is a broad array of conservative groups."

    Brad Jansen, an adjunct scholar at the conservative Competitive Enterprise Institute, has also joined Mr. Barr's effort, and said he will prove today that opposition to the Patriot Act is a political winner.

    Mr. Jansen is working for the congressional campaign of Tom Brinkman Jr., a state senator in Ohio who is among 11 candidates running in a Republican primary to fill the seat of former Rep. Rob Portman, who was tapped by President Bush as the U.S. trade representative.

[Lazamataz]

"They are asking us to give up our rights forever."

Not forever - only until you die.

Then may my death come more swiftly, and may it have meaning.

[Lazamataz]

Isn't Jose Padilla the wannabe jihadist who was plotting to detonate a dirty bomb? Didn't the Supreme Court just reject his claim that the government had violated his civil rights?

Yes. It is fascinating to watch the Supreme Court dismantle the Bill of Rights piece by piece. Campaign Finance Reform; property rights; states rights -- and soon the Second Amendment -- and even, in the case of Padilla, the Fourth and Fifth Amendment. We are living in the actual time in which the Bill of Rights was overturned.

Enjoy your new Tyranny.

[Lazamataz]

It has been reduced to that, hasn't it.

People who want the Bill of Rights to be honored are now "on meds".

We are becoming the Soviet Union, partly with the help of citizens who don't care or want it that way.

[Just another Joe]

Yes, I have.

I believe the Patriot act to be an unconstitutional, kneejerk, almost to the point of being illegal, reaction to the 9/11 attacks.
It went through Congress so fast that someone had it sitting, waiting in the wings, for just such an occasion.
Don't know who, don't know why, don't know when they thought it up.
But, IMO, it's unconstitutional without repealing amendments in the BOR.

[Lazamataz]

But, IMO, it's unconstitutional without repealing amendments in the BOR.

Don't count on the Supreme Court to do anything but rubberstamp it.

[Just another Joe]

Don't count on the Supreme Court to do anything but rubberstamp it.

I know. I'll have to live under it until I move out of country, which may be a long while.

[William Terrell]

The key word is indeed "potential". When dealing with military capability and political power through statute you have to assume the potential will at some time be fully used. The main point of the PA is to grease the process by judicial review. That's been the hang point for "efficient" terrorist management.

If a law can be abused, it will be abused. Cynicism regarding political matters is robust mental health. Lack of it is gullibility.

[TheDon]

People who want the Bill of Rights to be honored are now "on meds".

No, people who are hysterical that their rights are being infringed in a time of war are off their meds. It has always been, and it will always be so, that certain rights are infringed during a time of war.

After we have conquered those nations that support transnational terrorists, those very limited powers granted to the government during this time of war will be rescinded.

[Lazamataz]

No, people who are hysterical that their rights are being infringed in a time of war are off their meds. It has always been, and it will always be so, that certain rights are infringed during a time of war. After we have conquered those nations that support transnational terrorists, those very limited powers granted to the government during this time of war will be rescinded.

If you think this war -- this war against, not a people but a tactic -- is ever going to be over, then I must tell you: "Whoa! Take your meds, or it's off to the internment camp with you."

[VRing]

"Okay? Now...how about you explain to everyone how the Patriot Act lowers the standards of required evidence, and how FISA can now apply even if Foreign Intelligence Information isn't the "primary" purpose of surveillance?"


I asked WHO makes up the court. You explained the bureaucratic process to appoint judges to this imaginary court.

[TheDon]

If you believe that, I can understand why you are concerned.

[Lazamataz]

If you believe that, I can understand why you are concerned.

So tell me when the War on Terror will be over. You said, if YOU controlled things, it would be over when certain nations were in our control. Problem is, you don't control things.

This 'war' will be like the 'war' on drugs: Never ending.

"Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia" -- The proles, normally apathetic about the war, were being lashed into one of their periodical frenzies of patriotism.- George Orwell, 1984

[kesg]

If a law can be abused, it will be abused.

Then if you want to avoid abuse, the only answer is anarchy. Thanks, but no thanks. I would rather have law and order and deal with abuses separately if and when they occur.

[kesg]

No, people who are hysterical that their rights are being infringed in a time of war are off their meds. It has always been, and it will always be so, that certain rights are infringed during a time of war.

But what rights, exactly, are being infringed here?

[troubled_vet]

He is a U.S. Citizen. What difference does it make whether he was born here or he was "naturalized"? Both are legal statuses.

[Tench_Coxe]

"Do not grant to the Federal Government any powers today that you do not want Hillary to have tomorrow."

Well, George Bush and the Republicans will be in control forever, didn't you know?

[Tench_Coxe]

"The state-worshipers are slowly taking over Free Republic."

Which is one of the reasons I don't post as much anymore.

I sometimes have the suspicion that folks like 'Dane', 'Texasforever', and 'Jim_' actually have logged in different screen names and are posting to try and support this drivel. Heck, maybe even Eschoir is back on the 'Wheel of Eschoir'.

The conduct of some of the so called 'conservatives' in Congress is beginning to remind me of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm'.
And the cheerleading taking place on this forum lends creedence to the term of 'useful idiot'. What some of these people don't understand is that when the day comes when this crap is wielded against citizens of the US ( and many many years of history can be pointed at as examples , the useful idots will be some of the first ones to get nailed.

[CyberAnt]

I was just curious.

But .. since I'm not a lawyer, and have not studied his case .. I have nothing to agree or disagree with. How can I logically argue this is a civil rights violation if NO CIVIL RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS HAVE FILED (not just complained about) A PERSON'S CIVIL RIGHTS BEING VIOLATED.

[CyberAnt]

I find it stunning that a person can be born in America and grow up hating it. That hate has to come from within the family - and is facilitated by the liberal school system which constantly tells people that America is the bad guy.

[Lazamataz]

I find it stunning that a person can be born in America and grow up hating it. That hate has to come from within the family - and is facilitated by the liberal school system which constantly tells people that America is the bad guy.

Actually, it's a byproduct of Islam. Islamic radicals will not be satisfied by anything less than Sharia law.