Posted on 06/08/2005 5:56:55 PM PDT by Saberwielder
New Questions About Al Qaeda Training Camps in Pakistan
(ABCNEWS.com)
By ABCNEWS Original Report
June 8 — The arrest of two suspected al Qaeda agents in Lodi, Calif., today raises new concerns about the existence of al Qaeda training camps inside Pakistan.
According to an FBI affidavit, one of the suspects, Hamid Hayet, admitted to attending an al Qaeda training camp in Pakistan for six months in 2003 and 2004. His father, Umer Hayat, also in custody, told agents that he had visited other operational training camps around Pakistan.
"Wiping out the training camps in Afghanistan was one of the reasons we went into Afghanistan," said Richard Clarke, a former antiterrorism official and an ABC News consultant. "It was also one of the reasons we went into Iraq. And yet the whole time there were training camps in an ally, Pakistan."
Videotapes obtained by ABC News last week contain the only known images of al Qaeda training camps inside Pakistan. The al Qaeda-made tape shows fighters conducting a variety of exercises with automatic weapons, as they once did at similar camps in Afghanistan. The fighters are identified as coming from nine different countries in Africa and the Middle East, with many from Saudi Arabia.
During nighttime sessions, a leader tells the men in Arabic they must use violence to defend and impose Islam. Later in the video, the men are seen on an actual operation to attack a remote army outpost just before dawn.
Camp Near Pakistani Military Headquarters
Earlier this year, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf claimed that his nation's army had attacked and shut down such remote al Qaeda sanctuaries. "They are now on the run in the mountains, in small groups," said Musharraf.
The FBI affidavit in today's case claims that the training camp attended by the Hayets was located near the city of Rawalpindi, the country's military headquarters.
"That's a bit like having a terrorist training camp on the outskirts of Washington, D.C.," said Clarke.
According to affidavit, the man running the Rawalpindi training camp was identified as Maulana Fazlur Rehman, which is also the name of prominent Pakistani opposition leader. Rehman is considered an Islamic fundamentalist, and is known for his close ties to Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime.
Authorities in the United States and in Pakistan are investigating whether the opposition leader is the same man identified by the al Qaeda suspects.
We have two terrorists arrested on American soil and the FBI says in a sworn affidavit that they were trained in Al Qaeda training camp near the Pakistan army HQ as late as in 2004. Remember that we may have special forces in the border areas, but we seem to be largely dependent on Pakistani forces for operations in the urban areas (with a few Americans providing guidance).
This is not good. BTW, I remember reading about the camps near Rawalpindi and when the last time we raised the issue, they arrested the leader of that faction but released him a few months later.
Who says they were there the whole time? Could they possibly have been (gasp!) moved there after we shut them down in Afghanistan and Iraq? Gosh, do you think al Qaeda might be that smart?
Al Qaida in Pakistan? Shocking, shocking news.
/sarcasm
If you dare? . Just kidding.
However, every nation on earth can get a ticket for that line - Musharraf is doing far more to help in the GWOT than any of our other allies (outside of the UK) and he is dealing with an extremely complex situation within his own Country to boot!
The one issue we must insist on however is the need for our SOF to operate independently within the PAK border region. (in a larger scale ....outside of the simple sneak and peak Ops).
UBL and Zawahiri need to be put in the ground. It is becoming absurd that these two are still alive and free.
We have gone out on a limb to give Musharraf advanced weapons that may outlast him at the cost of our long-term ties with India. We have looked the other way at Pakistan's nuclear proliferation, Musharraf's murder of democracy, coddling of certain jihadists, pilfering of our billions in aid, lack of movement in madrassa reform and many other critical things solely because Musharraf's role in capturing terrorists.
There can be NO excuse for Al Qaeda training camps running in Rawalpindi, which is city populated with hundreds of thousands of Pakistan army men and hosts the Pakistan military HQ.
There can be NO excuse for Al Qaeda training camps running in Rawalpindi, which is city populated with hundreds of thousands of Pakistan army men and hosts the Pakistan military HQ.
No one is denying that al Qeade is still within Pakistan (of course they are) - They are also in about every ME Country as well (including Iraq and Afghanistan).
However, the point here being Musharraf has acted in support of the GWOT more so than any other Country (outside of the UK) in support of us (America). The first soldiers into Afghanistan were based out of Pakistan.
It was Pakistan facilities that were a tremendous help for logistical reasons early on in our war to remove the Taliban and go after al Qeade. In war logistics can be half the battle (if not more!).
The fact is no other nations have stepped up like Musharraf has (especially with the complex situation within his own Country). Turkey wouldn't even step up to the plate for us (America) when we needed them for solely logistics help in OIF -
Do we wish some more would be done within Pakistan. Of course we do. But like I said, name another Nation we couldn't say that of. Hell, we wish more could be done HERE in the United States with regard to the GWOT by our own Democrats!! (yet we can't get them to budge!) -
But you somehow suggest Musharraf should be able to do more within Pakistan. Please - It is called dealing with the reality of the real world. Which is exactly what we have to do.
There is a terrorist cell in California that has now managed to train in 2004 in Pakistan and successfully get into the US. We were lucky that they were caught before they could kill Americans.
How can you explain a terrorist camp outside the capital of a country that is supposed to be helping us? "Opps., we missed one?" Does it not strike you odd? Will you be willing to sing the same tune were some terrorists trained in Pakistan today to successfully kill Americans in the future?
Musharraf's only use to us is in capturing terrorists. We are paying them a billion and half dollars a year in hush money outside of the aid just for their bases. There is no excuse for letting terror camps operate right under his nose.
Well firstly both UK and Pakistan will need to do a lot to put their own houses in order before they can we useful to themselves let alone anybody else in the WOT. And they have a long way to go before they are able to get there ......if at all.
Khalil has a strong grudge against us because of the 1998 cruise missile attacks on camps in Afghanistan where some 30 of his men were killed, along with Pakistani spooks. Again, right at the start of the air campaign after 9/11, a few dozen of his thugs were killed in Kabul. He has routinely conducted press conferences saying that he will send his men to attack America in revenge.
Anyway, despite our repeated requests, Pakistanis have refused to hand him over to us or shut him down. They just underplayed his role saying that he is a low ranking guy.
See this article, dated January 26, 2004
A barrage of U.S. cruise missiles several years ago didn't sap Fazlur Rehman Khalil's devotion to holy war, and two subsequent bans issued by Pakistan's government haven't silenced his invective against Jews and Americans. But Khalil, who co-signed Osama bin Laden's 1998 edict that declared it a Muslim's duty to kill Americans and Jews, is not leading his holy warriors from inside a secret mountain cave. He lives comfortably with his family in this city adjacent to Pakistan's capital, Islamabad, next to his Koranic girls' school and bookshop, just down the street from a police checkpoint. And he still is urging his followers to fight the United States.The back cover of November's issue was an ad for the "All-Pakistan Training Convention of Jamiat ul Ansar Activists" at Khalil's headquarters, the Jamia Khalid bin Waleed Mosque, across from an army base on the edge of Islamabad. Last month's cover showed a giant fist holding a sword, rising from flames in the desert to slash the U.S. flag. ...A headline says that "moujahedeen attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan have bankrupted America politically, economically and mentally," and adds: "Due to the blessings of jihad, America's countdown has begun. It will declare defeat soon."
There were many other reports by American reporters on how Khalil was training terrorists openly, in and near Islamabad. Musharraf has had advance notice and second and third reminders. Still he has allowed terrorists to train in his capital city and go to the US for the purpose of causing harm to the US. How do you explain that? Please keep your answer specific to the above and regarding Khalil
Musharraf - a coup d'etat leader - by definition, a backstabber. And the evidence that he is not stabbing us in the back? A few bones thrown to us. It is notable that when the CIA came to interview some nuclear scientists, it was discovered that they had "fled" to Burma (where they still are - working on "peaceful nuclear energy" - in a country that exports 3 times more natural gas per year than they use). Later, we blew the whole Khan network thing wide open, and no real closure yet on that. DPRK military assistance - utterly despicable.Ongoing work with the Communist Red Chinese miltary - codevelopment of WMDs and the port of Gwadhar, at the Strait of Hormuz - that is simply criminal. We should have taken down Pakistan, with no warning, Fall of 2001. The fact that we did not, means that we do not have the will to win the current and growing world war.
Correction..... Musharraf has acted.
The key word being acted. A great actor, he is.
RE: Pakistanis have refused to hand him over to us or shut him down.
Pakistan may be employing a scissors strategy against us. They have suckered us into thinking we can trust them, and, significantly, have made us piss off India, our best possible natural ally in the region. As a bonus, they've gotten us to look the other way at their dealings with the PRC. They've suckered us, now, here comes the sucker punch!
Your problem is something called the "real world" - Where people have to make choices between options that are actually available (not pie in the sky wishes) - No matter how much we "want it to be so" the political climate within much of the Pakistan citizenry is anti-American.
This is a reality Musharraff simply can't "wish away" - And again, you fail to notice that Pakistan (Musharraf) has done much to help facilitate the GWOT! (more so than practically all other nations - Hell, he has done more to fight the GWOT than our OWN Democrats in this Country!)
How do you intellectually explain that Musharraff should be doing more to fight the GWOT when we can't even get a 1/3 of our political segment in America to help with the GWOT!!
It is simply foolish to expect so much from Musharraff - (though of course I wish he would do more in allowing U.S. SOF to operate independently within the PAK border region (though even that is much more complex, in that the logistics would be a nightmare for us to begin with).
As for the terror camp in Pakistan. (heck we trained terrorists to fly planes right here in America!) - As for the ISI of course there is corruption within it. We know it and so does Musharraff - But again, it is the real world, and nothing can be done about it over night - However no one can deny that Musharraff has done a lot of replacements within the ISI top leadership -
Such drivel (IMO) - Yeah, President GWB, SecDef Rumsfled, SecState Rice and former SecState Powell are all a bunch of suckers who can't handle those within the Pakistan Gov't - Please.
Wow - You could not be more wrong - And what your above comments show is you haven't a clue about war (and the logistics needed to win one) - It took us more than 2 years of build up to go into Iraq (yet you foolish act as if we could have invaded Pakistan only a few short months after Sept 11th - A nation who by the way was allowing us to base the troops we were using to bring down the Taliban from Afghanistan).
We are fighting and winning the most successful unconventional war in history (with the GWOT).
For me it is clear. Pakistan is like a criminal who got a good deal because he decided to turn on his erstwhile partners and help the good guys hunt them down. As long as he is helping capture criminals, we can overlook his other misdeeds. But one false move on the main task and it's back to the doghouse. If it ever turns out that any terrorist attack on America was due to Pakistani malfeasance or deception - the whole deal is off. Not one American life. Period. I don't think it is "realistic" to assume that we will get hit again and again and operate with that defeatist mindset.
First off welcome to the adult real world! - What you described above is exactly what needs to be done from time to time in the real world! (unfortunately bleeding heart liberals (possibly like you??) thought this type of relationship was awful! and could not be tolerated during Clinton's 8 years! - Therefore our CIA had to cut all ties with any unsavory types....and thus we felt better about ourselves.....but in the reality of the real world are Intel went even further to sh*t!! (but we sure felt better about ourselves didn't we!).
As for the rest of your comments above I answered them in a private mail (and suggested to you why it was privately mailed!).
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