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To: ninenot; Diocletian
I hope Cardinal Puljic is not true to his roots (Djakovo). I seriously hope and pray that if he is, he will repent and reform; if not, that he will clean up his Bishops. Given these comments of his and Dio's comment, I am a bit perplexed. Perhaps Dio can tell me more about him.

As a Catholic, I am ashamed to the marrow of my bones by some of the sermons and comments made by Catholic Bishops and priests which I heard during my time there. The fellow at the Cathedral in Djakovo (from whence the Cardinal hails) was particularly offensive. Catholics from other countries working in the area drove to Hungary to attend Mass every Sunday because they could not stomach listening to the virulent nationalism spewing from the pulpit there.

I distinctly recall the nasty "conversation" between two Croat Bishops aired on HRTV on Christmas morning of 1997. In particular, I recall one of them saying "Maybe someday we can forgive the Muslims, but we must never, never forgive the Serbs." < sarcasm > Merry Christmas. I'm sure Jesus was real proud of them. < /sarcasm >

The Catholic Church in Croatia needs some serious cleaning up. I am not saying all Croats are nationalist whackos. They certainly are not. However, in my opinion, the Church should play a leadership role in discouraging such nastiness, not a leading role in fomenting it.

I was in the process of converting to the Catholic Church when I left for Croatia. My experience of the Catholic Church there was so bitter, and I was so appalled by it, that it took several years to get over it before I did finally complete RCIA.

As for whether Croats in BiH are being "discriminated against" by the "international community" while Muslims and Serbs are "supported", well, I just don't know how things are being done there in detail right now. The Cardinal gives figures for numbers who were displaced vs numbers who have returned. A pertinent question is: how many of those displaced settled in Croatia (or Germany) and want to stay there?

Croatia bases citizenship on what they call "nationality" and we Americans would call "heritage". Therefore, Croats from BiH (or Canada or Argentina or wherever) can have Croatian citizenship. I saw the Croats building houses with money provided by the "international community" for Croats displaced from BiH to permanently relocate in Croatia. Burning down perfectly good houses which had belonged to chased-out Serbs while using donated "international community" money to build new ones. It didn't sit well with me. Sorry. Why should I donate my hard-earned money so they can build a new house on top of the ashes of a house they just willfully and maliciously burnt down? No thank you.

Following "Operation Storm" over 75% of the houses in Sectors North and South ("Krajina) were burnt down, blown up, or so severely looted they were rendered uninhabitable (they took windows, roof tiles, even toilets -- it was quite the looting frenzy and there were actually traffic jams of looters). Why should I pay the same people who destroyed all that to rebuild it?

I also recall that a year or so ago, the Croat leadership in BiH got in some serious trouble for stealing funds donated by the "international community". Of course, the Bosnian Muslim and RS leadership in BiH have also stolen funds.

How many displaced Bosnian Muslims and Serbs have returned to their homes in BiH? Sorry, I can't take the Cardinal's assessment at face value until I see some hard and fast numbers on whether aid has been proportionate to population and how many of which groups have returned. And for those who have not, why not. There has been a great deal of house trading among all three groups. Many people simply traded houses instead of returning to an area where they would be in the minority.

I am sorry for the suffering of Croat IDPs and refugees, as I am for all the IDPs and refugees. Each of those people has a face and a sad tale to tell. Many have broken hearts.

To explain about Djakovo: It is a town in Eastern Croatia with a remarkably ugly brick cathedral. (Most Croat Churches are lovely, far more so than our American ones, but not this one.) After WWII, Tito settled some of the wildest, most inbred nut cases (both Croat and Serb) from Herzegovina in that area. The people in the area (both Croat and Serb) whose families always lived in the area are among the nicest, most reasonable people you will ever meet. The Doljaci (I hope I remember that word correctly), whether Croat or Serb, were often far-out nationalist whackos, true to their roots. Tito should have sent them all to Yemen or somewhere they'd fit in better ;)

I hope you can understand why I don't automatically trust the Cardinal. And I hope Dio can help me learn about him.

49 posted on 06/10/2005 2:08:27 AM PDT by wonders (Let go of a small part of your righteousness and in a few days you you will be at peace-Abba Poeman)
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To: wonders
What mistrust are you referring to? What is wrong with nationalism? Should the Croatian clergy go liberal and propose support for female clergy, homosexuals, etc?

Only 10,000 Croats have been allowed to return to RS, the pressure that Croatia has received regarding Serbian refugees has been on a scale several times larger than that which the RS has received. Croats want to return to their homes in Derventa, Bosanski Brod, Bosanski Samac and in Stolac, but their homes were 100% destroyed in 1992 by the Serbs through dynamiting.

As for the overall position of Croats in BiH, Puljic is referring to the fact that the Serbs have their own entity, and that Croats are stuck under Muslim domination in an unequal Federation forced upon us by the international community.

51 posted on 06/10/2005 4:48:11 AM PDT by Diocletian
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To: wonders; ninenot; Diocletian
Has Croatian nationalism subverted the Roman Catholic Church again?

You'd have thought their years under Pavelich would have taught them something.

52 posted on 06/10/2005 4:54:14 AM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: wonders
You have something against nationalism?

The "peace at any price" wackos are beginning to crawl out from under the rocks and make bleating noises here in the USA--they think that our Iraq and Afghanistan operations should never have happened.

I'm "nationalist" enough to give GWBush the benefit of the doubt.

62 posted on 06/10/2005 6:05:13 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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