The Smithsonian withdraws sponsorship of intelligent design film

NY Times ^ | 6/3/05

[Fester Chugabrew]

Because you've already assumped your conclusion and your assumptions are based solely in what you want to believe rather than any actual evidence.

I have not yet seen evidence of pink unicorns. The evidence of an orderly heaven and earth, OTOH, is fairly significant, which is more than I can say for "natural selection" as an agent of anything more than infinite guesswork. Well, it's your baby. Prop it up as best you can.

[Elsie]

What is it that prevents you from making a tree?

 

This...............

 

 

Job 38

 1.  Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
 2.  "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?
 3.  Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.
 4.  "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand.
 5.  Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it?
 6.  On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone--
 7.  while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?
 8.  "Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb,
 9.  when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness,
 10.  when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place,
 11.  when I said, `This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt'?
 12.  "Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place,
 13.  that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?
 14.  The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment.
 15.  The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken.
 16.  "Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep?
 17.  Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the shadow of death ?
 18.  Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this.
 19.  "What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside?
 20.  Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
 21.  Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years!
 22.  "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail,
 23.  which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle?
 24.  What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
 25.  Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm,
 26.  to water a land where no man lives, a desert with no one in it,
 27.  to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass?
 28.  Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew?
 29.  From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
 30.  when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?
 31.  "Can you bind the beautiful  Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?
 32.  Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons or lead out the Bear with its cubs?
 33.  Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up [God's ] dominion over the earth?
 34.  "Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water?
 35.  Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, `Here we are'?
 36.  Who endowed the heart with wisdom or gave understanding to the mind ?
 37.  Who has the wisdom to count the clouds? Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens
 38.  when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together?
 39.  "Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions
 40.  when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket? 
 41.  Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?

Job 39

 1.  "Do you know when the mountain goats give birth? Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?
 2.  Do you count the months till they bear? Do you know the time they give birth?
 3.  They crouch down and bring forth their young; their labor pains are ended.
 4.  Their young thrive and grow strong in the wilds; they leave and do not return.
 5.  "Who let the wild donkey go free? Who untied his ropes?
 6.  I gave him the wasteland as his home, the salt flats as his habitat.
 7.  He laughs at the commotion in the town; he does not hear a driver's shout.
 8.  He ranges the hills for his pasture and searches for any green thing.
 9.  "Will the wild ox consent to serve you? Will he stay by your manger at night?
 10.  Can you hold him to the furrow with a harness? Will he till the valleys behind you?
 11.  Will you rely on him for his great strength? Will you leave your heavy work to him?
 12.  Can you trust him to bring in your grain and gather it to your threshing floor?
 13.  "The wings of the ostrich flap joyfully, but they cannot compare with the pinions and feathers of the stork.
 14.  She lays her eggs on the ground and lets them warm in the sand,
 15.  unmindful that a foot may crush them, that some wild animal may trample them.
 16.  She treats her young harshly, as if they were not hers; she cares not that her labor was in vain,
 17.  for God did not endow her with wisdom or give her a share of good sense.
 18.  Yet when she spreads her feathers to run, she laughs at horse and rider.
 19.  "Do you give the horse his strength or clothe his neck with a flowing mane?
 20.  Do you make him leap like a locust, striking terror with his proud snorting?
 21.  He paws fiercely, rejoicing in his strength, and charges into the fray.
 22.  He laughs at fear, afraid of nothing; he does not shy away from the sword.
 23.  The quiver rattles against his side, along with the flashing spear and lance.
 24.  In frenzied excitement he eats up the ground; he cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds.
 25.  At the blast of the trumpet he snorts, `Aha!' He catches the scent of battle from afar, the shout of commanders and the battle cry.
 26.  "Does the hawk take flight by your wisdom and spread his wings toward the south?
 27.  Does the eagle soar at your command and build his nest on high?
 28.  He dwells on a cliff and stays there at night; a rocky crag is his stronghold.
 29.  From there he seeks out his food; his eyes detect it from afar.
 30.  His young ones feast on blood, and where the slain are, there is he."

Job 40

 1.  The LORD said to Job:
 2.  "Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!"
 3.  Then Job answered the LORD:
 4.  "I am unworthy--how can I reply to you? I put my hand over my mouth.
 5.  I spoke once, but I have no answer-- twice, but I will say no more."
 6.  Then the LORD spoke to Job out of the storm:
 7.  "Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.
 8.  "Would you discredit my justice? Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
 9.  Do you have an arm like God's, and can your voice thunder like his?
 10.  Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor, and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.
 11.  Unleash the fury of your wrath, look at every proud man and bring him low,
 12.  look at every proud man and humble him, crush the wicked where they stand.
 13.  Bury them all in the dust together; shroud their faces in the grave.
 14.  Then I myself will admit to you that your own right hand can save you.
 15.  "Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox.
 16.  What strength he has in his loins, what power in the muscles of his belly!
 17.  His tail  sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.
 18.  His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like rods of iron. 
 19.  He ranks first among the works of God, yet his Maker can approach him with his sword.
 20.  The hills bring him their produce, and all the wild animals play nearby.
 21.  Under the lotus plants he lies, hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
 22.  The lotuses conceal him in their shadow; the poplars by the stream surround him.
 23.  When the river rages, he is not alarmed; he is secure, though the Jordan should surge against his mouth.
 24.  Can anyone capture him by the eyes, or trap him and pierce his nose?

Job 41

 1.  "Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope?
 2.  Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook?
 3.  Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words?
 4.  Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life?
 5.  Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls?
 6.  Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants?
 7.  Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears?
 8.  If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
 9.  Any hope of subduing him is false; the mere sight of him is overpowering.
 10.  No one is fierce enough to rouse him. Who then is able to stand against me?
 11.  Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me.
 12.  "I will not fail to speak of his limbs, his strength and his graceful form.
 13.  Who can strip off his outer coat? Who would approach him with a bridle?
 14.  Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth?
 15.  His back has rows of shields tightly sealed together;
 16.  each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.
 17.  They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted.
 18.  His snorting throws out flashes of light; his eyes are like the rays of dawn.
 19.  Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. 
 20.  Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.
 21.  His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth.
 22.  Strength resides in his neck; dismay goes before him.
 23.  The folds of his flesh are tightly joined; they are firm and immovable.
 24.  His chest is hard as rock, hard as a lower millstone.
 25.  When he rises up, the mighty are terrified; they retreat before his thrashing.
 26.  The sword that reaches him has no effect, nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
 27.  Iron he treats like straw and bronze like rotten wood.
 28.  Arrows do not make him flee; slingstones are like chaff to him.
 29.  A club seems to him but a piece of straw; he laughs at the rattling of the lance.
 30.  His undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.
 31.  He makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
 32.  Behind him he leaves a glistening wake; one would think the deep had white hair.
 33.  Nothing on earth is his equal-- a creature without fear.
 34.  He looks down on all that are haughty; he is king over all that are proud."

 

 

 

 

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Your original statement, as typed, was untrue, as YOU YOURSELF know, because you immediately changed it!"

Yes, and my correction was sitting here for two hours before you pinged me.

"I responded to the first, before even SEEING your second."

Even though the second was only two posts down.

"When I DID read the second, it STILL struck me as untrue."

Because you're illiterate.

"Words have meanings, and the lack of them have consequences"

And only a creationist would be so stupid not to know what tense *Living* is.

I said

"Every evolutionist believes that every LIVING human being was born from another human being."

I even put LIVING in caps, to emphasize it. Your inability to understand simple English words and sentences is not my concern.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

I wasn't lying by calling you a woman. I was making fun of your name, which you use to shield yourself from attacks. Get with the program! :)

[Elsie]

Making fun and calling names: how mature!

---

 

Do we know if YOU are REALLY a man, CG?

 

Can you really play a stringed instrument??

 

And, are you even from N/S Carolina???

 

 

 

 

 

Hey!! You are SO right!!!  It's FUN to be 'with the program'!!!!

 

But I feel exposed now; I don't know if I can take it - Boo Hoo.....

 

[Elsie]

Yes, and my correction was sitting here for two hours before you pinged me.

Dang!!!

I didn't know I was supposed to sit at this computer all the time, just WAITING so I can reply [correctly] to you.

[Elsie]

Bye....

I'll be back later this afternoon.

[AndrewC]

Would you like to define what the phrase 'birds of a feather' means, if it doesn't mean 'in the same group as'?

Yes. And you all are in the censorship group.

If my memory is any good it seem that religious groups are more apt to burn books than other groups.

Hah, what a laugh. There are billions of Chinese communists.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Making fun and calling names: how mature!"

I was making fun of your name because you use it to make people think you are woman, so people won't attack you as hard. Don't try to take the moral high ground; you are as sarcastic and snarky as they come.

"But I feel exposed now; I don't know if I can take it - Boo Hoo....."

I don't think you can either. I exposed your pathetic attempt to attack what I said, when you didn't even understand what I said and made a fool of yourself. I would be embarrassed if I was you too.


"I didn't know I was supposed to sit at this computer all the time, just WAITING so I can reply [correctly] to you."

No, that is not what I said. The correction I made was there a few minutes after the original post. You didn't post a response for another few hours. You didn't think (nothing new for you) to look and see what else I wrote. Therefore, you made a fool of yourself arguing against a post I quickly corrected.

"I'll be back later this afternoon"

We can hardly wait for you next logical blunder.

[Elsie]

I was making fun of your name because you use it to make people think you are woman, so people won't attack you as hard. 

We can hardly wait for you next logical blunder.

 

I would be hard to top this one......

[Elsie]

[SampleMan]

Hundreds of thousands of people were not burned at the stake. Did you even think about that before writing it?

The NSF doesn't aspire to be the government? Well, neither did the church. The medieval church simply wanted the governments to be compliant. Are you saying that the NSF doesn't want the government to be compliant?

[donh]

Hundreds of thousands of people were not burned at the stake. Did you even think about that before writing it?

Sorry. I should have written "hundreds of thousands of people were burned at the stake, or worse".

The NSF doesn't aspire to be the government? Well, neither did the church. The medieval church simply wanted the governments to be compliant.

That's not remotely accurate, and fairly obviously so, if you consider that Galileo was not threatened with death, and imprisoned for life by a secular government. That's a lot of power for an institution that "simply wanted governments to be compliant".

Are you saying that the NSF doesn't want the government to be compliant?

Cute question. The NSF wants public schools to teach science, as it is presently conceived by most scientists, in classes advertised as science classes. It strikes most sane persons as unlikely that the NSF will resort to murder or imprisonment to achieve this, as, unlike the Church, the NSF has no history of trying to win arguments through the total elimination of whole classes of peoples who disagree with her.

[SampleMan]

From your perceived history of the church, it is obvious that you should have skipped a biology class or two and read some actual history.

Much is folded into "religious war" that simply doesn't belong, and your perception of the magnitude of persecution is certainly wildly exaggerated.

The Nazi's espoused a more scientifically pure race, and used scientific achievement as a propaganda tool. Are we therefore to charge science responsible, or to label the conflict and genocide a "scientific war".

For someone so concerned about ensuring the purity of your science (as it stands at this particular moment) you could do a lot better with your knowledge of human events.

[donh]

From your perceived history of the church, it is obvious that you should have skipped a biology class or two and read some actual history.

Really? So the church did not commit the genocide of the Anabaptists--including drowning all the Anabaptist children in a river? Did not hunt down and murder the Cathars, the Albigensians, the Templers? Did not not kidnap jewish children to be brought up christian? Did not instigate the torture and murder of innumerable jews and witchs--to the extent that mandated ghettos and witchhouses had to be constructed, so numerous were the church's victims? Did not instigate the crusades? Did not instigate the inquisition with its own special tools for winning philosphical arguments: the thumbscrew and the iron maiden? What fairy tale world did you attend school in?

[donh]

Much is folded into "religious war" that simply doesn't belong,

And much is not. I didn't even mention the 100 years war, which depopulated much of Northern Europe. If you wish to contend that the 100 years was was not primarily a war about religion, you will have a fair amount of opposition from historians and sane people.

and your perception of the magnitude of persecution is certainly wildly exaggerated.

No, it is not, if anything, I have been quite reticent concerning the horrifying details of the history of Catholic political philosophy as actually practiced, this being a family channel.

[donh]

The Nazi's espoused a more scientifically pure race, and used scientific achievement as a propaganda tool. Are we therefore to charge science responsible, or to label the conflict and genocide a "scientific war".

Hitler, in his speeches, relied heavily on the historical christian opposition to jews which he initially aligned the nazi party with, far more than with "science". If you look around, you can find hundreds of facimilies of nazi anti-jewish posters. None of them rely on science, most of them rely on biblically-tinged characterizations of jews, harking often on Matthew 27:25--the blood-guilt passage. The SS found the jews remarkable easy to murder wholesale, in part, because they were confined to ghettos that had been established hundreds of years before by Papal decree.

Germany was a heavily christian country with, even for europe, a remarkable distaste for jews before, during and after WWII--this is not surprising, since Martin Luther's stronghold in Europe was Germany, and Martin Luther was probably the world's champion jew-hater of all time.

The catholic church in germany and austria provided collated birth and death records to the SS to help them hunt down jews--except for jews who had converted to christianity--when it came to those records, the church seemed to have enough spine to resist--but when it came to killing jews, the church was only too glad to help.

So...taking the historical record all together, you have a lot of nerve trying to tell me that science is more responsible than the church for the holocaust.

[donh]

For someone so concerned about ensuring the purity of your science (as it stands at this particular moment) you could do a lot better with your knowledge of human events.

I return the compliment--you seem astonishingly ignorant of the history of the Church w/respect to its philosophical opponents of the last 1400 years.

[SampleMan]

Where do you read this stuff, the National Enquirer?

Your logic is blurred by severe Christa phobia.

[donh]

Where do you read this stuff, the National Enquirer?

Mostly my high school history book, I expect. Here are about 100 woodcuts, mostly of historical multiple burnings and drownings of heretics, which I found in about 2 minutes in wikipedia.

http://www.bethelks.edu/services/mla/images/martyrsmirror/

Your logic is blurred by severe Christa phobia.

Your vision is blurred by a severe allergy to history books. Why don't you try reading one before you stuff your foot in your mouth clear to the knee?