Posted on 06/03/2005 4:30:08 PM PDT by Paleo Conservative
TOKYO -- With the order count for Boeing's new 787 soaring, John Leahy of Airbus is heading for the Paris Air Show later this month ready to close the gap with his longtime foe.
A series of design changes during the last three months to the A350 are nearly complete, and, after a slow start, Airbus finally has the plane that customers say they want, said Leahy, chief commercial officer at Airbus and its bulldog sales chief.
Not only is he going after Boeing's 787 with one version of the A350, but he's prepared to take on Boeing's 777-200 with a second and bigger A350.
"I'm now getting an airplane out there that is more than competitive with the 787, and you will see orders very soon," he said in an interview this week at the annual meeting here of the International Air Transport Association, or IATA. The group represents some 270 international airlines.
Leahy said at least four airlines will announce orders for more than 100 A350s at the air show, which begins June 13. The bulk of those are expected to come from Emirates, for as many as 50 planes, although Leahy refused to identify any customers.
It's possible that by year's end Airbus could have 200 orders for the A350, Leahy said, but after what befell Boeing last year he did not want to make a flat-out prediction. Boeing executives had confidently predicted 200 orders for the 787 by the end of 2004, then had to explain why the company fell well short of that target.
During the first half of this year, however, the 787 order book has surged. Boeing now has 266 orders and commitments from 21 customers for the 787, and sources say more 787 orders will be announced either just before or during the air show.
One key customer for either the 787 or A350 that won't be announcing an order at the air show is Singapore Airlines, Boeing's biggest 777 operator and also the first airline that will take delivery of the Airbus A380 superjumbo late next year.
Singapore Chief Executive Chew Choon Seng said last year he was very interested in the 787 but wanted to wait to consider the new Airbus.
"The specifications and design targets for the A350 are being crystallized right now," Chew said in an interview this week. "Airbus is just about to finalize the version they will offer us to best match our requirements."
One factor that works in favor of the fuel-efficient 787 and A350 is the "stubbornly high price of fuel," Chew said. "That makes both propositions more attractive right now. But a lot will depend, at the end of the day, on how much it will cost to own and operate. We are waiting to hear what Airbus presents. If they price the A350 attractively enough, we would take a look."
Chew said Singapore Airlines will issue a request for proposals to Boeing and Airbus in a few months and could have a decision by the "turn of the year."
The 787 and A350 are twin-engine midsize jets.
When Airbus announced late last year that it would offer the A350-800 and the A350-900 to customers, they were presented as derivatives of the A330-200 and the bigger A330-300, but with a new and improved wing, greater use of lightweight composites and with the fuel-efficient engines being developed for the 787.
Although the fuselage cross-section of the A350 remains the same as that of the A330, the inside of the fuselage has been revised to provide more room for passengers as well as more seats, Leahy said. By moving the aft pressure bulkhead and relocating the crew rest under the cockpit, the A350-800 will have about 15-18 more seats than the A330-200, Leahy said, and about 30 more seats than the 787-8. The bigger A350-900 is also gaining seats over the A330-300 with the addition of a couple fuselage frames.
Boeing plans three versions of the 787 -- a short-range 787-7, the long-range 787-8 and 787-9, which will be bigger.
Even before the recent changes, the A350-800 and A350-900 were bigger than the 787-8 and 787-9. In a two-class configuration, the 787-9 will seat 258 passengers, or 35 more than the 787-8
Emirates had wanted Boeing to stretch the 787-9 even further, and when Boeing would not, Emirates decided to go with the A350.
Boeing does not want to make the 787-9 too big or it would be competing against its 300-seat 777-200.
"Boeing argues they have a little more headroom on their plane, so we changed the shape of the sidewall to have similar width," Leahy said of the recent A350 changes.
The A350-800, with more seats than the 787-8, will be able to fly about 300 miles farther than the Boeing plane with about 4 percent lower fuel burn per seat and lower maintenance cost per seat, Leahy said. The cash operating costs to the airline per seat will be less than for the 787-8, as will the plane's empty weight per seat, he said.
And not only does the A350-900 beat the 787-9 on any seat-cost comparison, but it is also beats the 777-200, Leahy said.
"We have about same number of seats, and I can fly about same range, within a couple hundred miles, but burn 30 percent less fuel and I'm doing it with a much quieter airplane," Leahy said of the A350-900 versus the 777-200.
Scott Carson, Boeing's jetliner sales chief, said he's not worried about the latest A350 changes.
"We are happy, from both a 787 and 777 point of view, with the tactic they have chosen," he said in an interview at the same airline conference in Tokyo that Leahy attended.
"We think we can hold our own in any toe-to-toe competition."
Taking on the 787 as well as the 777 with the A350 represents a big switch in the Airbus strategy, Carson said.
"We would be pretty happy with that as a 777 competitor," Boeing's Carson said. "The 777 is still preferred by passengers. It is roomy inside and has high ceilings."
Moving the crew rest below the cockpit as Airbus did on the A350 eats up valuable cargo space, Carson said.
"From a 787 view, that's neat because our plane has huge cargo volumes," Carson said. "And from a 777 view, that's an interesting competitive place to be (for Airbus and the A350) because we have the cargo market."
Airbus has lost two recent high-profile campaigns to Boeing that it had been counting on to gain momentum for the A350.
Northwest, the biggest Airbus customer in the United States, rejected the A350 and ordered the 787, even though it operates a growing fleet of A330s.
Air Canada, another important Airbus customer, also rejected the A350 in favor of the 787.
Leahy said if Airbus had been able to offer the A350 in its present form, those campaigns, and others won by the 787, might have turned out different.
"We have been listening to the airlines and going through the design loops," Leahy said.
"Our customers said we should have done this a year ago. But that's water over the dam."
Bring it on, counters Boeing's Carson.
P-I aerospace reporter James Wallace can be reached at 206-448-8040 or jameswallace@seattlepi.com
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What a huge load of bull. There is no peer for the 777, and if there ever is one in the future, it wont come from Europe.
Speaking of the 777. It looks like ANA will place an order for around 53 777-300ER's next year to replace all it's 747's, and older 777's. There is a Bloomberg story all about it, but we can't link to that site.
... if we have to place them ourselves"
Qatar and Emirates are big rivals I hear. So I hope Qatar goes for the 787 to battle againts Emirates A350's.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusinessnews/publish/article_10002080.shtml
Japan's All Nippon Airways may replace 53 of its largest aircraft with Boeing models, in what would be a stunning blow to the European aircraft manufacturer in the lucrative Asian market. The value of such an order for Boeing would be $13 billion.
All Nippon Airways (ANA) is Asia's second-largest by revenue and it introduced the Airbus A320 to its fleet in 1991.
There are 777's old enough to be replaced??
bump
These predictions are nothing more than sales hype and there is a good chance that Airbus won't make good.
Also, if the United States makes good on derailing the European governemtal subsidies for the development costs of tha A350, then perhaps the buy in price won't be qwuite as attractive as advertised, either.
Well, older than the 777-300ER. They seem to want a single model type for all its large planes.
Larry Lucido
There are 777's old enough to be replaced??
Not yet. The first 777 went into revenue service ten years ago this week on June 7, 1995. Of course by the time the finish designing and testing the second version of the A350 it will be another ten years if it takes as long as the A380 program.
Yeah, but the 787 has not been built or tested either, so the specs on that plane are not known as well.
You see, it doesn't matter who builds it, until it is in the air and in service, we can't know how it will perform.
The A350 will be a damn good plane, as will the 787. Turn off your irrational bias towards Airbus, there are plenty of american made parts on their planes, and there are lots of non american parts on Boeing's planes.
The A350 is not overpacked, it will carry the same load as a 777. As for it being a deathtrap? Please, you are being a bit hysterical.
Listen, I fly a lot, especially in Asia, where I live. That means I fly on Airbus products a lot. I don't have any real problem with them, but I know a lot of folks that go out of their way to avoid them. Maybe its because of the Air India crash(s), or maybe not.
Some complain that they don't like the way Airbus planes creak and groan. Some don't like the engine sounds they claim to be able to hear.
I don't have any of those complaints. If I have any beef at all surrounding Airbus, it is with the subsidies for new plane development that the European governments give them. Airbus is now a mature company with substantial market share. Subsidies that may (or may not) have been appropriate when Airbus was kick-started thirty years ago are certainly inappropriate today, and must be ended.
As for performance predictions, I agree that it doesn't matter who builds the plane, it's just that the predictions for the 787 ought to be a little better as the plane is more advanced in its development.
thank you
"Boeing plans three versions of the 787 -- a short-range 787-7, the long-range 787-8 and 787-9, which will be bigger.
Boeing does not want to make the 787-9 too big or it would be competing against its 300-seat 777-200." I do not know"777-200"thank you
777-200, 305 to 440 seats, 5,302 cu ft of cargo space (up to six pallets, 14 LD-3 containers, plus 600 cu ft of bulk cargo), typical cruise speed mach 0.84, max range 9,649km.
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/777family/777technical.html
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