[cartman90210]

As Maxwell Smart might say, the old "five dollars for a head of lettuce" trick! I've still not heard a rational explanation of this pseudo-phenomenon. I even asked our friend econ_grad about it last weekend when (s)he posted on another thread that the cost of food would rise by a factor of five unless illegal aliens were used as labor. I didn't get a chance to respond at the time, as I spent the afternoon out in the world and away from the computer, and by the time I returned, the thread was locked because of some sort of flamewar took place. So I'm pinging econ_grad, as well as the two people on this thread who ask the same question that I did, and for clarity's sake, I'll quote econ_grad's response to me from that thread:

This is what they mean by little knowledge being dangerous. Wage is not the only labor cost. You have to factor in things like worker's comp, insurance, social security, etc. Not to mention that you constantly have to worry whether your local labor is unionizing, and then you have to deal with that. But, you probably have never run a business so you have no idea what the true costs of all these things, including headache, are.

Okay, well...first off, posting my opinion on an Internet forum is not "dangerous," at least compared to politicians who create bad policies, so to make that remark is rather...what was the word you used? Oh yeah: "patronizing." And yes, I realize fully well that wage is not the only labor cost - one of the benefits for employers who hire illegals is that they don't pay medical or dental benefits. This is why I was interested in reading a proper breakdown of the costs, especially given your claim of possessing a degree in economics and the expertise that claim implies. The response I got instead is a broad generalization of what goes into running a business, without any real specifics, that did nothing to further the discussion.

And for the record, I do in fact run a business. One-man operation. It is in the beginning stages, so I am still working another job to finance it. My only employees are a lawyer and an accountant. Anything else I need (stationery, for example), I contract out. I have no reason at this time to hire anyone else, but should that day come, I won't be hiring illegal aliens.

So once again, I ask: can you explain exactly how increasing labor to a legal minimum wage will result in the cost of food or other services rising at such a high level. Be specific, please. And save the patronizing remarks for someone else. I'm genuinely interested in a proper discussion, and will return your respectful responses in kind. Thank you.

[Regulator]

There isn't any point in rational discussion with most of the ideologues here. Essentially most of the opinions on this forum are from the perspective of the 'anarcho-capitalists' , and virtually every argument they dredge up is just recycled dreck from 50 years of that philosophy being batted around. IOW, they ain't got nothin' new to say.

Suffice to say this: Football has rules; baseball has rules; every game on Earth is defined by its rules. The American economy's rules are defined by its people - assumptively for their benefit. Restricting competition for jobs to members of the team - i.e., citizens - is one of the rules. That is clearly to the benefit of the team members. People who break that rule are....cheating.

And that's all they are: cheaters. And cheaters get thrown out of the game.