Posted on 06/02/2005 11:10:04 AM PDT by lizol
What's funny is it comes from a "Pole" with an obsession for Russia, after all, that's where the majority of your posts "lie". I guess you went through your silver and need to earn more.
Oh, I don't know, maybe because the nice Chechin islamics had been digging in for half a year and the Russian army didn't feel like sending in waves of grunts to take on hardened positions. But I'm sure a man like you, who has never worn a uniform would volunteer to charge bunkers.
Yup, just as soon as Poland gives back all none Polish territories: you know, like Salasia, Pomeria, Prussia. So be a good EUest and lead by example.
To: RussianBoor
A.Pole is Russian.
237 posted on 06/05/2005 9:38:56 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
Of course, anyone who disagrees with the EU socialist version of "history" must not be a fellow countryman. After all, this hero of Poland, who readily surrenders her Sovereignty and Freedom to the EU Trotskyte Fourth Reich is the end all of what it is to be Polish.
They are Judises who have sold the Sovereignty and Freedom of their Poland for the EU's silver and do as their masters in Brussels command. In this case, make propaganda, wouldn't want a strong US-Russian relationship again, pushing the EU to the back closet like from 2001-2003. They've been squirming their way in-between since.
"I cannot stop myself from asking if this is so then how do YOU know all you have posted here? A divine enlightenment?"
Look at my post no.209. You'll find a few links there. And please don't tell me they are "leftists" or propagandists. Human rights guys may make mistakes but won't deliberately tell lies.
????? Oh that'll buy you a lot of street cred here. We've seen over the years a long list of these "mistakes" and for the most part they are pure lies. Most of these pricks take the side of Islamics, period, no matter what.
"Well then give them back to Germans and take your "historic" lands from Ukrainians and Belorussians if you want, but stop blaming Russians. We are pretty satisfied that we had kicked you out from Moscow and had taken back Smolensk."
Such historical comparisons and blame-throwing really don't make much sense. People in many countries (not only Poles), even many Russians, blame your governement and army for what they are doing "now" in Chechnya. I don't like your views on history, but OK, you have the right to it.
You kicked Poles out of Moscow: very good. But then Warsaw was for 123 years a Russian city.
Lets remember the fact that from 1200s to the 1700s (about 500 years) it was Poland that was the aggressor annexing such Russ cities as Kiev, Smolensk, etc. Only the Kieven Russ cities as far east as Moscow were spared and that was because they were already conquered by the Mongol Golden Horde. From the 1400s to the late 1700s there was a drive amongst the eastern Rus to reunify the principalities and then reclaim the lands of the Kieven Russ, most of which at that point were in the hands of the Polish-Lithuanians, Mongols and the Swedes.
And if you don't believe Amnesty and HRW, maybe US Department of State is more credible:
"Russia's human rights record remains uneven and worsened in some areas. Despite significant improvements in conditions following the end of the Soviet Union, problem areas remain. In particular, the Russian Government's military policy in Chechnya is a cause for international concern. Government forces have killed numerous civilians through the use of indiscriminate force in Chechnya. There have been credible allegations of violations of international human rights and humanitarian law by Russian forces."
"In late 1994, the Russian security forces launched a brutal operation in the Republic of Chechnya against rebels who were intent on separation from Russia. Along with their opponents, Russian forces committed numerous violations of human rights. The Russian Army used heavy weapons against civilians. Tens of thousands of them were killed and more than 500,000 displaced during the course of the war. The protracted conflict, which received close scrutiny in the Russian media, raised serious human rights and humanitarian concerns abroad as well as within Russia."
http://www.state.gov/outofdate/bgn/r/27340.htm
And remember, US goverment has very good strategic reasons not to talk too much about it. But these were rather strong words.
"(about 500 years) it was Poland that was the aggressor "
And they occupied us only for 123 years!!! That's not fair!
They should have stayed here for at least another 300.
OK. Now I understand. You didn't actually express yourself very clearly. It was the other guy, Romanov who claimed there are no proofs of human rights abuses.
As the jounalists are concerned, you are not right. Even the Russian journalists are complainig: http://www.worldpress.org/Europe/2048.cfm
"Poland was a signory of Russian tzars but it does not make it part of Russia proper. It was a separate duchy with its own laws."
It was a signory of tzars only between 1815-1831. Then it was a part of Russia, more or less autonomous. After 1865 all autonomy was cancelled.
And I was outside of the Duma when the Chechen female homicide bombers blew themselves up in front of the National. It was complete chaos. Their actual target may have been the Duma - a block away. The victims of this particular attack were mainly students on break from MGU's downtown branch.
You're absolutely correct about all of Russia being a target for terrorists. Most people here don't bat an eye when a foreigner is detained for filming the subway, a bridge, outside of an airport, but heaven forbid a foreign newscrew operating in Kavkaz is detained and it's armageddon.
"It was the other guy, Romanov who claimed there are no proofs of human rights abuses."
Huh? What you talkin bout Willis?
Grzegorz 246 is Albanian Muslim.
I feel flattered.
"Huh? What you talkin bout Willis?"
I read your posts again and still have the impression that that was one of the things you were saying. If not: sorry for a mistake. The other question: whether Chechens have a right to independence is ethical, not empirical (though connected to the first one), and dubious historical analogies won't help here very much.
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