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Bold and underlining added by me.

Could this be -- gasp! -- macro-evolution? O the horror! Everyone be nice.

1 posted on 05/31/2005 12:03:10 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
EvolutionPing
A pro-evolution science list with over 280 names.
See the list's description at my freeper homepage.
Then FReepmail to be added or dropped.

2 posted on 05/31/2005 12:04:33 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas. The List-O-Links is at my homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry

> Could this be -- gasp! -- macro-evolution?

No, it can't. If it was macro-evolution, the stickleback would have evolved legs, rack and pinion steering and warp drive. Anything less is *micro* evolution, and is wholly irrelevant to everything. Look away.


3 posted on 05/31/2005 12:05:26 PM PDT by orionblamblam ("You're the poster boy for what ID would turn out if it were taught in our schools." VadeRetro)
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To: PatrickHenry
Could this be -- gasp! -- macro-evolution? O the horror! Everyone be nice.

Did it turn into something other than a fish?

5 posted on 05/31/2005 12:10:46 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("We, the people, are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts..." -Abraham Lincoln)
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To: All

Yeah....but a fish is still a fish as time goes by.


Seriously, they may have demonstrated how one type of fish turned into another type of fish, but I don't see a fish turning into a dog or a giraffe. If this process is actually true, why isn't it still happening, or why haven't we found any real examples of intermediate species anywhere in the fossil record (that I'm aware of). Something that truly appears to be a cross between one species and another. Like the Creature from the Black Lagoon.....


6 posted on 05/31/2005 12:13:31 PM PDT by blueblazes
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To: PatrickHenry
But.....it is still a FISH.
If they really believed evolution to be true, a much better study would be to see if variations in this gene caused the fish to become, lets say .... a bug. Wait, lets make it a bit easier, maybe it could become a squid. They both live in the water at least.

Sounding sarcastic, but with good natured intentions,
GE
8 posted on 05/31/2005 12:16:11 PM PDT by GrandEagle
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To: PatrickHenry

If a fish doesn't give birth to a petunia, it isn't macroevolution.


14 posted on 05/31/2005 12:20:04 PM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: PatrickHenry

Ditches to be defended:

It's still a Sticlkeback.
It's still a fish.
It's still an animal.
It's still material.
Stalin became a Communist due to Darwin.


15 posted on 05/31/2005 12:20:17 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: PatrickHenry

If sticklebacks taken from one locale can still interbreed with the others, what does this prove?

Seen some pretty goofy looking families -- especially those with too much inbreeding -- but they are just "normal" variants within the human species. Or consider our friend canis familiaris, with the chihuahua and the Great Dane. No one would seriously argue that either has become "less dog."

Of course genes drive morphology!


18 posted on 05/31/2005 12:23:09 PM PDT by Elpasser
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To: PatrickHenry

This does nothing to verify macro-evolution. It does more to ridicule the claims of macro-evolutionists.


19 posted on 05/31/2005 12:24:35 PM PDT by bigcat32 ("Progressive" is a word for old fashioned socialism.)
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To: PatrickHenry

20 posted on 05/31/2005 12:25:08 PM PDT by NCjim (The more I use Windows, the more I love UNIX)
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To: PatrickHenry

This explains then why so-called scientists turn into dumbos.


25 posted on 05/31/2005 12:36:30 PM PDT by taxesareforever (Once was a Pepsi drinker)
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To: PatrickHenry

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what survival benefit body armor would convey to a 3 inch fish that would normally be swallowed whole by its predators.


30 posted on 05/31/2005 12:42:22 PM PDT by Old Professer (As darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of good; innocence is blind.)
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To: PatrickHenry
“And it turns out that the mechanisms are surprisingly simple. Instead of killing the protein (with mutations), you merely adjust the way it is normally regulated. That allows you to make a major change in a particular body region - and produces a new type of body armor without otherwise harming the fish.”

No! No! No! No! We all know that all mutations are killers. It's in the talking points. These scientists must be lying. </creo_mode>

69 posted on 05/31/2005 1:45:12 PM PDT by VadeRetro ( Liberalism is a cancer on society. Creationism is a cancer on conservatism.)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Tribune7; Tolkien; bondserv; GrandEagle; ...
ping


Revelation 4:11
See my profile for info

79 posted on 05/31/2005 1:50:06 PM PDT by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: PatrickHenry
Don't look now, but these scientists have just proved the the theory of evolution is a crock. It should be renamed the theory of gene mutation and a whole new set of assumptions developed to support it's application.
110 posted on 05/31/2005 2:21:04 PM PDT by finnigan2
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To: PatrickHenry

So, he said, “the marine fish actually carry the genes for this alternative state, but at such a low level it is never seen;” all the ocean fish remain well-armored. “But they do have this silent gene that allows this alternative form to emerge if the fish colonize a new freshwater location.”

Species made to easily adapt to multiple conditions. Isn't that evidence for creation? Were the marine fish carrying around this gene "just-in-case" they happen to bump into some fresh water? How, exactly, does evolution account for ready-to-go premade genes for other environments?


115 posted on 05/31/2005 2:22:10 PM PDT by johnnyb_61820
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To: PatrickHenry

That would be Micro-evolution as Macro-evolution does not exist as far as anyone knows.


143 posted on 05/31/2005 2:55:54 PM PDT by fish hawk (I am only one, but I am not the only one.)
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To: PatrickHenry

Very interesting article. Thanks.


162 posted on 05/31/2005 4:07:54 PM PDT by ValenB4 ("Every system is perfectly designed to get the results it gets." - Isaac Asimov)
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To: PatrickHenry
Great link, PH.

It's evolution from one species to another, leading to a large and obvious change in appearance. That used to be 'macroevolution', before the fundies decided they better move the goalposts. Nowadays unless you see a red-leaf lettuce transform into a wide-screen, hi-def TV before your very eyes, it isn't macroevolution, because macroevolution doesn't happen, this I know, for the Bible tells me so.

173 posted on 05/31/2005 4:45:15 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: PatrickHenry

How is less of an "armor plating" on these fish an enhancement?

Does a fish becoming less insulated constitute an advancement? Does it help reduce drag and make them faster in the water?

Do the researchers explain why it helped these fish in their new environments other than the one speculative comment?

If the Eda gene is considered a harbinger of a disorder in humans, why are they considering it as an example of evolution in fish?

Not busting stones, I just wonder about these things sometimes. It is certainly easy to understand why scientists accept evolution as more fact than theory, as it is the most unifying notion which attempts to define the commonality of life on Earth.


185 posted on 05/31/2005 5:05:48 PM PDT by Radix (Having the best Free Republic Tag Lines since...what time is it anyhow?)
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