Researchers Trace Evolution to Relatively Simple Genetic Changes

Howard Hughes Medical Institute ^ | 25 Narcg 2005 | Staff

[blueblazes]

Ya know what ....a flying reptile is still a flying reptile. There is no proof that this flying reptile turned into any kind of "bird". Same with the whale with legs. It didn't turn into a giraffe. It turned into a whale with legs. I don't see that there has been any significant variation, other than relatively superficial ones such as size, color, scales, whatever, over potentially millions of years. Even saying that this might have happened in the past, why is there no evidence of new evolving species over the past few thousand years? Surely something must have changed radically into something else by now or is this not an ongoing process?

[orionblamblam]

> If this process is actually true, why isn't it still happening

It *is*.

> or why haven't we found any real examples of intermediate species anywhere in the fossil record

We *have*. Virtually every species is a transitional form from one to another.

One such thread:
Pakicetus
Ambulocetus
Rodhocetus
Procetus

[PatrickHenry]

Hey, while we at it, why not bring out all the creationist bumper-strip slogans: "It's just a theory!" and "Micro si, Macro no!" and "Jack Chick for President!" And bring out all the claims that evolution leads to atheism, liberalism, bestiality, feminism, communism, racism, sexual promiscuity, moral relativism, philosophical materialism, and -- of course! -- Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. Now, just to demonstrate your persistence, add a few of those doctored-up quotes that have been floating around forever, to show that Darwin didn't believe Darwin -- preferably the same ones we've refuted and exposed as fakes dozens of times before. Then spam the thread by dumping in one of those incredibly stupid list of scientists who don't accept evolution -- use the one where virtually everyone died centuries ago, and the "modern" ones are mostly dentists and gynecologists. Hey, here's a huge pile of objections you can use, with many items you may not have thought of, but they've already been rebutted: An Index to Creationist Claims. Now that we've got that out of the way, let's continue ...

[Blood of Tyrants]

Here is an argument that I have yet to have an answer to:

Darwin formed his theory of evolution in part by observing the minute changes in the species of finches and turtles on the Galapagos (sp?) Islands and it is widely accepted that these changes were caused by the birds and turtles being separated for thousands of years and different genes becoming more or less dominant in the animals.

Now, if it takes THOUSANDS of years to get something as small and insignificant as the shape of a beak to change, then how many MILLIONS (billions?) of much more significant changes must take place for a single celled creature to evolve hundreds of organs that all function interdependently and turn into a human?

You can't come up with enough time for it to happen.

[taxesareforever]

This explains then why so-called scientists turn into dumbos.

[blueblazes]

This might be true, however, too often I think scientists are using THEIR imagination and wishful thinking by assuming that animals who share common characteristics or appearance are descended from or related to each other. I don't know that that is true at all. For example, the pictures you just posted - there is some similarity just a one might say there is similarity between a small cat and a small dog (there are more similarities than you might initially consider once you think about it), however do cats and dogs have a common ancestor because they have some characteristics in common? I don't know. And I don't know how you go about proving such a descent either. Where is the proof other than visual similarities? What would constitute "proof" for this evolution? Personally I think scientists are as desperate to prove their belief in evolution as religious folks might be to prove it isn't true.

[bigcat32]

Are those pictures a joke? Is this an attempt at pro macro-evolution material?

[blueblazes]

That's one of the basic problems, I think. The amount of time that it takes to produce even the minute changes they are noting, is significant in and of itself. To produce a major evolutionary change so that a species is no longer or barely recognizable from its "forebears" would take too long. Perhaps evolution is true, however, it cannot be at this incredibly slow pace. Like you, I don't think there would be enough time. What I think is that these folks are stuck in a conundrum. They don't want to believe in God and specific creation, which is fine with me, however, they must therefore come up with some explanation for the existence of creation - most importantly the creation of man. So they back into evolution which seems to be to be a theory largely based on the similiarities between one creature and another, seeming later in the fossil records. I think it's as much a belief system as creationism as unlike much of the mechanical side of science, you cannot demonstrate that it actually happened. You have to postulate based on appearances.

[js1138]

But they are all still whales. No change at all except for size, color, shape, fur, teeth and other such superficial things.

[Old Professer]

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what survival benefit body armor would convey to a 3 inch fish that would normally be swallowed whole by its predators.

[JimSEA]

I don't know but I think I personally would have put the miner with the jack leg at the peak of evolution. That is one thing my Dad and I always agreed on. :-)

[blueblazes]

Absolutely - and that is the bottom line. They are still whales. A fish is just a fish...as time goes by.

[Soliton]

do you doubt the truth of seraphims as detailed in the Bible?

[PetroniusMaximus]

***You can imagine seraphims and cherubims, but your imagination is so limited that you can't imagine a fish evolving into a frog over millions of years?***

Well, for one thing we've got eyewitness accounts of seraphim and cherubim.

Where are the eyewitnesses of your fish turning into a frog?

[EternalVigilance]

And bring out all the claims that evolution leads to atheism, liberalism, bestiality, feminism, communism, racism, sexual promiscuity, moral relativism, philosophical materialism, and -- of course! -- Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot.

Actually, it isn't the theory of evolution per se that led to those nasty little 'isms'.

It was the loss of the fear of God and adherence to His Word.

Evolution is just one more destructive manifestation of man's vain attempt to rationalize existence apart from God.

Once man throws God over the side, those who are created in His Image soon follow.

Loving your neighbor as yourself is the natural outcome of loving God.

If you don't care about the Lord, what could possibly lead you to give a rip about anybody else once the chips are down?

Do you think you can make a case that a strict adherence to Christian principles by society and by individuals would not have prevented every single one of the scourges you list in that post?

[Soliton]

stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid

[blueblazes]

I don't care what the Bible says about seraphims. The Bible has nothing to do with what I think about evolution. What I have seen about evolution is that scientists, like creationists, have their own belief systems, one tenet of which is called evolution. Evolution is apparently based upon observing similarities in animals at different points in the fossil records and assuming that they are related or that one is "descended" from another because they share common characteristics or appearance. This is not proof of anything. In fact, it is as considerable an exercise in imagination as that of the creation of seraphim.

I don't know what the truth is. But I don't assume anything when it comes to the things of this earth.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid***

Don't be so hard on yourself bub. We all make mistakes.

[Soliton]

from soliton to soliton, stop trying to cast your pearls before swine. DO NOT argue with the Flat Earth society.

Good Bye! I speak no more to fools.

[blueblazes]

Yeah, you're obviously too smart for us. Maybe if you keep staring at those pearls long enough, they'll evolve into a necklace.