In Britain, a Man Fights for a Feeding Tube

Los Angeles Times ^ | May 30, 2005 | Sarah Price Brown

[Cincinatus' Wife]

LONDON — Leslie Burke does not want to spend the rest of his life imagining a slow death by starvation. He can picture it: lying still, unable to communicate but conscious every second as his doctors let him die.

"That is, in my mind, the most inhumane way possible for someone to die," said Burke, 45, who suffers from a degenerative brain condition that in 15 to 20 years is expected to incapacitate him, taking away his ability to speak.

Burke has launched a legal battle in Britain that has far-reaching medical and ethical implications, raising questions about patient autonomy, doctor responsibility and use of healthcare resources. He is demanding that the state give him nutrition and water by artificial means once he is no longer able to feed himself, even if the quality of his life might seem poor to an outsider.

The lawsuit plays into the worldwide debate, especially since the Terry Schiavo case in the United States, about when life should be sustained and when it can be allowed to end.

"I think the Leslie Burke case is the most important bioethical lawsuit that I'm aware of in the world today," said Wesley J. Smith, an anti-euthanasia activist at the Discovery Institute, a conservative think tank in Seattle, who advised Schiavo's parents before the death of the brain-damaged woman.

Burke went to court last year to object to guidelines issued by the General Medical Council, which oversees medical treatment in Britain. The council says doctors may, even against a patient's wishes, withhold or withdraw life-prolonging treatment if they deemed a patient's condition so severe and prognosis so poor that artificial feeding would cause more suffering than benefit.

"They tell me I'm a legally competent person to refuse [life support], but I'm not legally competent to make the

[Gay State Conservative]

Under the current British and Canadian health systems,this guy doesn't have a prayer! And under HillaryCare?

Take a guess.....

[Rockingham]

Slip, slipping down the slippery slope to euthanasia and medicalized murder for the sake of cost control. The British welfare state's cherished promise of cradle to the grave medical care is now revealed to have a sinister catch: they will decide when your time is up and you are ready for the grave.

[.30Carbine]

Complete sentence: "They tell me I'm a legally competent person to refuse [life support], but I'm not legally competent to make the decision that I don't want the end of my life to be hastened," Burke said. "I find that contradiction very hard to understand."

[TalBlack]

"I find that contradiction very hard to understand."


I don't. But then I know who these people are and what they want and what their goals are.

[snugs]

Read the article it is the General Medical Council not the NHS that is saying this. Yes there are cost restraints but the same as they would be under private insurance doctors have to ensure they are giving the best treatment in their opinion to their patient.

We may disagree about this and argue both with them and with the GMC, the NHS or a private insurer but to immediately say the reason is because it is non private care is wrong.

The biggest issue which is not addressed here is the British mentality that the doctor is God and what he says is divinely inspired. I am not being blasphemous here just trying to explain how a lot of my fellow countrymen view doctors even in 2005.

I know people where it is obvious wrong diagnoses is being given but they continue to praise their GP for continuing to investigate whereas myself as a non medical person was certain what the problem was months before and in fact in the case of dear family friend nearly too late by the time more tests and undoubtedly much more money was used (funds or treatment costs not an issue here) before the correct diagnosis and treatment could be begin which has been months of radio and chemotherapy.

[lafroste]

I know what you mean. I flatly contravened my doctor's advice on a serious issue once, telling him point blank that his proscribed treatment was wrong and that I refused to undergo it. I then had to twist the arm of my GP to get him to give credential to how I wanted to handle it. (Situations like this are why it is important to have a real one-to-one personal relationship with your GP). He hated doing it, it flew in the face of all his medical training, but he finally did it.

The bottom line is that subsequent events proved that I was correct, the specialist was wrong, and I am now in perfect health. This outcome would never had happened under Britain's health care system, was almost impossible to overcome in the US system, and had the specialist prevailed my life would have been wrecked.

[sgtbono2002]

*****He can picture it: lying still, unable to communicate but conscious every second as his doctors let him die. ****


Yeah I understand . Nothing like waiting around conscious ,unable to communicate staring at the walls for 5 or 6 years. Maybe they will turn on the TV so he can watch Sponge Bob .Personally I would rather starve than this but then Different strokes for different folks.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

..... Different strokes for different folks.

This is true.

[snugs]

There are procedures in the UK regarding what happened to you but many people are not aware of what to do or as I said before always think the doctor is right.

In a case like yours I would demand to see a different GP the practice I use has about 6 or 7 plus locoms so it would not be too difficult plus also I would demand a specialist diagnosis if that looked like being to too long under the NHS then I would have to dig deep in my pockets for a private referral after which most specialist who also work in the NHS can put you back into the system for treatment usually jumping the queue because you went to them private. Unfair I know but one has to know how to work the system. The treatment is the same but quicker.

Actually our treatment is good and the NHS has some of the most advanced equipment in the world it is just the length of time to get it and the other issue is dirty hospitals caused mainly by outsourcing the cleaning to a private contractor so there is no one in authority of the cleaning staff on site to ensure it is being done correctly just a money counter.

[gogogodzilla]

Slip, slipping down the slippery slope to euthanasia and medicalized murder for the sake of cost control.

---

Also, note how Europe is also slipping down the slippery slop of Anti-Semitism.

And remember what happened the last time both of this events happened at the same time?

[snugs]

Whilst I am no fan our our NHS and would prefer the option of paying a private insurer I am certain that this would also involve cost choices and inevitably an argument with insurance companies if the treatment were prolonged and expensive.

This is more a case of the doctors playing God to us little people "doctor knows best".

[Rockingham]

Maybe, but I adhere to the view that despite similarities from time to time, history by its nature is always a succession of singular occurrences, something historians call the one-damn-thing-after-another theory.

This time, when the crunch, there will not be enough Jews and they will not be consequential enough to blame for Europe's problems. The fight will be with the Muslims, which most governments in old Europe now recognize. They sought commercial advantage with Muslim countries through antisemitism and hostility to Israel, but now, through immigration, they have so many Muslims and have catered to them for so long that there is no way out without a lot of pain.

Since old Europe's governments have retreated to form and are trying to muddle through by make-believe, they are failing to address their Muslim problem. Eventually, the public may become so angry and scared that they embrace extreme political parties and leaders. As odd as it may sound, I expect that if and when Europe pressures their Muslims to acculturate, limit their numbers, and reform themselves, the Muslims will complain that those bad Europeans are mistreating them just like they did the Jews.

[robertpaulsen]

"He is demanding that the state give him nutrition and water by artificial means once he is no longer able to feed himself ..."

He DEMANDS? The state GIVE him?

Sure. What else? Dialysis? Heart lung machine? 24-hour care? Transplants?

You got the money? Then demand to your little beating heart's content.

But if you're taking money from others then you play by their rules.

[TYVets]

"But if you're taking money from others then you play by their rules."

Except in Florida, there they take your money and murder you by starvation.

[Holden Magroin]

This is what happens under socialized medicine. When the state runs low on money to fund health care, it has to cut back on services. There are already whispers in Europe about euthanizing deformed infants.

[A.J.Armitage]

But if you're taking money from others then you play by their rules.

And if the man is a taxpayer does the state have to play by his rules? Or does this only work in favor of the state?

[robertpaulsen]

Yes. In Florida they honor your wishes.

[robertpaulsen]

"And if the man is a taxpayer does the state have to play by his rules?"

I'm a taxpayer and I still can't get free ice cream from Dairy Queen. Should I be entitled to free healthcare from St. Joseph's Hospital? Free gas from Mobil? Free tools from Sears?

[Socraticus]

This from the country that brought us this pearl of witticism:
CUSTOMER:
Here's one.
CART MASTER:
Ninepence.
DEAD PERSON:
I'm not dead!
CART MASTER:
What?
CUSTOMER:
Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
DEAD PERSON:
I'm not dead!
CART MASTER:
'Ere. He says he's not dead!
CUSTOMER:
Yes, he is.
DEAD PERSON:
I'm not!
CART MASTER:
He isn't?
CUSTOMER:
Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
DEAD PERSON:
I'm getting better!
CUSTOMER:
No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
CART MASTER:
Oh, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.
DEAD PERSON:
I don't want to go on the cart!
CUSTOMER:
Oh, don't be such a baby.
CART MASTER:
I can't take him.
DEAD PERSON:
I feel fine!
CUSTOMER:
Well, do us a favour.
CART MASTER:
I can't.
CUSTOMER:
Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes? He won't be long.
CART MASTER:
No, I've got to go to the Robinsons'. They've lost nine today.
CUSTOMER:
Well, when's your next round?
CART MASTER:
Thursday.
DEAD PERSON:
I think I'll go for a walk.
CUSTOMER:
You're not fooling anyone, you know. Look. Isn't there something you can do?
DEAD PERSON: [singing]
I feel happy. I feel happy.
[whop]
CUSTOMER:
Ah, thanks very much.
/Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail

http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Scripts/HolyGrail/grail-02.html

Sorry for the length...