Posted on 05/26/2005 9:09:09 AM PDT by m1-lightning
There are many cases where alcohol is not present and someone is prosecuted. The problem with your opinion is you don't understand that alcohol related cases are prosecuted more because alcohol related cases occur more. That is similar to blacks whining that there are more blacks in prison than whites even though the reason is because more blacks commit the crimes.
I have my differing opinions on alcohol and speeding because I've experience both first hand. I can't drive straight when I'm incoherent but I can drive just fine going 85 in a 65 as long as other traffic is driving a similar speed or there is no traffic at all. Being coherent behind the wheel is the most important aspect to driving.
Re-read. Catch up. There's a big difference between "being liable" and being "criminally negligent".
My quote said nothing about criminally negligent. You will be found *liable* if it's found you caused a collision. In some circumstances you may be found criminally negligent, but in most cases it's all about liability.
I never mentioned a crosswalk. Be realistic. How many kids use a crosswalk to cross the street?
You know just enough about the law to be dangerous.
If the dad didn't own the parking lot himself or he didn't have ongoing business with the owner, he shouldn't have been there for any reason at all. A case could be made for criminal trespass.
True, parking lots are not normally policeable areas if the owner doesn't want the police. There are exceptions for health and safety, and for felony violations. I can assure you that if WalMart wants the cops to write you a ticket for speeding in their parking lot, and the officer observed you violating the law, you can be ticketed and punished accordingly. My WalMart has cops sitting in the parking lot on Friday and Saturday night to keep the high school kids from racing through the lot, endangering paying customers. Many, many tickets were written every weekend, until the punks got the message.
In most jurisdictions, law enforcement cannot enter private property without a warrant unless called in or he/she observes a felony offense being committed. I don't know how many hundreds of DUI cases I have seen sucessfully prosecuted where the offender walked out of the barroom (visibly drunk) and get into a vehicle, only to be apprehended, cuffed, and stuffed before he/she left the bar's parking lot. You don't really think the club owners wanted to have their patrons hassled right outside the front door and gave permission for this, do you? The cops had the right because they personally observed a felony being committed, and they arrested the offender before that person drove away killed someone.
Quit watching Law and Order or NYPD Blue and go to the law library, or pull a copy of you state and/or local statutes. I think you might be amazed.
Yes; and no.
Of course you have to feel worse for the young woman who was killed after heroically saving her baby, than for the girl and her dad.
We had a similar accident in NJ just recently --a girl who DID have her learner's permit was practicing parallel parking in a vacant lot with her mother. The girl accidently accelerated backward, crushing her mom, who was behind the car placing a cone to help guide the daughter.
Hmmmm, Lynne Abraham. She's a big leftie DA in PA. Didn't she have something to do with thwarting FReeper Don Adams when he tried to get compensation, after getting beaten up by union thugs while protesting some Clinton event?
That's the reason I posted this thread. The father is liable but IMO not criminally negligent. 12 years in prison for teaching his 15 year old how to drive in an empty parking lot is ridiculous. You've been posting up and down this thread that someone is "negligent" for every accident. Maybe you should have clarified that in your beginning posts.
"The problem with your opinion is you don't understand that alcohol related cases are prosecuted more because alcohol related cases occur more."
Not at .08, .10 or even .12. They occur more at about .14 and above. The reality is that the alcohol is prosecuted in a "might" cause a crash as well as a "has" caused a crash scenario. While the rest of the negligence is only "sometimes" prosecuted in a "has" caused a crash scenario.
"Being coherent behind the wheel is the most important aspect to driving."
That is what I have been saying. Being coherent also requires paying attention and being prepared for adverse actions by outside influences.
I may stnad corrected. In Tennessee you are required to have a license to operate a vehicle on public roads. I had no clue that PA was different. What type of law do you practice?
Stinkin' Lincoln, I know exactly where this happened...
With vehicles, there are no accidents; someone is always negligent.
Not a true statement. It's not always one of the drivers being negligent. Remember the Firestone Tire fiasco with all the SUV roll-overs? Those drivers never knew what hit them.
I haven't practiced since I became a mom. (Almost 14 years, now!) Not even a member of the PA bar. Only VA and NY. Government relations and insurance, for a major provider of teachers pensions (as they say on TV). And you wonder why being a mom was more interesting! Now I'm a historian, got the degree while I was "retired".
Been following this since it's all over our news here. The guy's gotten himself in trouble because he jumped the gun with his daughter. Shouldn't have let her behind the wheel without the learner's, and she was not even of age for the permit. Not that that would have changed the outcome of the situation, mind you. Dad wasn't on top of things in the car. Certainly he was taken by surprise--I think she stomped that accelerator pretty hard thinking it was the brake and that V-8 took off. Too bad it wasn't a Prius; that poor lady might have had a chance.
Here you may drive with an adult (over 21) on a learner's during designated hours on public roads.
I'm basing my opinion on conversations I've had with my brother (a detective) and several friends (patrolmen, detectives, the local Chief of Police, an assistant D.A. and two local Judges) who tell me what is and is not allowed under Oklahoma law. I'm sure I get a little better handle on the law than most folks.
I believe the parking lot in question is public property - a large public high school parking lot.
PA requires both an eye exam and a written test prior to getting a driver's permit as well as proof of age (16). If she was 15 she could not legally get a permit. The father, no matter how well-meaning, has the responsibility to obey the law and to teach his daughter to obey the law. Breaking the law has consequences.
Yes, it was a tragic accident, but one that could have been avoided had the parent acted in a responsible, law abiding manner.
I love it! You hit the nail on the head. I knew this thread was missing something: the Bible verses. Though in Mayfair (the Philadelphia neighborhood in which this occurred) you can't swing a cat without hitting a Catholic.
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