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Opening statements heard in court-martial of Navy SEAL accused of abuse
AP ^ | 5/24/5 | SETH HETTENA

Posted on 05/24/2005 12:59:33 PM PDT by SmithL

SAN DIEGO -- A Navy SEAL lieutenant failed to set an example for his men when he punched a hooded and handcuffed Iraqi detainee, a military prosecutor said Tuesday in opening statements at the officer's court-martial.

"In this country, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than the enemy," said the prosecutor, Navy Lt. Jonathan Freimann.

A jury of six Navy officers is hearing the case of Lt. Andrew Ledford, who faces up to 11 years in military prison if convicted of charges including assault, dereliction of duty and conduct unbecoming an officer. Although the detainee, Manadel al-Jamadi, died in Abu Ghraib prison shortly after the SEALs handed him to the CIA, Freimann said the government would present no evidence linking Ledford to the death.

"This case is about a platoon commander's failed leadership," Freimann said. "He chose poorly by joining them instead of leading them."

The prosecutor showed jurors several photos, including one of Ledford holding up a Red Bull energy drink as he and his men posed around al-Jamadi, who lay hooded in the back of a Humvee. Another photo showed a different detainee, who appeared to be wet, wearing a child's Halloween pumpkin mask while another SEAL knelt over him.

(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: sealofapproval
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He's being tried for acting like a SEAL instead of a lawyer.
1 posted on 05/24/2005 12:59:34 PM PDT by SmithL
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To: Former Military Chick

If you're interested.


2 posted on 05/24/2005 1:00:32 PM PDT by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
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To: SmithL

This stuff makes me sick. How can the people of the US have a sense that we are at war when we prosecute our finest. If these charges were brought up during WWII against a member of the UDT, the prosecutor would have been given a section 8.


3 posted on 05/24/2005 1:09:32 PM PDT by ProudVet77 (Warning: Frequent sarcastic posts)
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To: SmithL

Good grief! Leave the SEAL ALONE.


4 posted on 05/24/2005 1:10:25 PM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: SmithL

No, he's being tried for abusing a detainee. As an officer he is supposed to set the example. He failed, and is being tried. If he didn't do it he will walk.

I haven't said too much during these threads about prisoner abuse, but I need to speak up now. The military must unfortunately investigate every alegation of abuse because of all our liberal friends running around looking for the boogy man. Do not blame the command for the investigation, their hands are tied, they have to do it.


5 posted on 05/24/2005 1:10:58 PM PDT by sean327 (All men are created equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: SmithL

First, being an officer he will skate, unless he has ticked off someone up the ladder. Second, the military is loaded with the goody two shoes lawyers that have never gotten their hands dirty in a MANS WAR. It is a rigged system, called Military Justice.


6 posted on 05/24/2005 1:15:28 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: ProudVet77

"How can the people of the US have a sense that we are at war when we prosecute our finest."

We aren't prosecuting our finest, Lt Pantano's Article 32 hearing found there was no evidence proving he murdered 2 detainees. The Cpl in Falujia who shot the terrorist playing dead was cleared. Why? Because the investigations were done. No one is being railroaded.


7 posted on 05/24/2005 1:17:19 PM PDT by sean327 (All men are created equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: sean327

It tough when we must abide by all the rules, but the enemy doesn't follow any rules.


8 posted on 05/24/2005 1:19:14 PM PDT by blueberry12
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To: sean327
Why did it take months to clear the Marine in Fallujah? Any combat vet, looking at the tape, would tell you what he did is just the way it is. These incidents should be handled at the battalion level. The charges are even absurd. Hitting a captured insurgent? Why is this even going on. We do worse to our own troops in SERE training.
You ever see the way cops react after a car chase? That's caused by the adrenaline that gets pumped up. Now magnify that 10x for being in combat.
9 posted on 05/24/2005 1:46:31 PM PDT by ProudVet77 (Warning: Frequent sarcastic posts)
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To: SmithL
"He's being tried for acting like a SEAL instead of a lawyer."

No, he's being tried for breaking the code he swore to uphold. If you break the code, you go to jail; end of story. It's easy to get emotional in all this, but there's absolutely no logical reason for this type of behavior. The military holds standards of conduct for a reason. We have professional soldiers for a reason. Those who are unable to control their emotional outbursts should not be soldiers in our professional fighting forces - they're a danger to themselves and their fellow soldiers.

I love how people will come on and defend the disgraceful actions of these few soldiers here and there. What they do is provide fodder for the enemy. They give ammo to enemy propaganda machines and inevitably help to turn others against us. They give pause to those who would like to believe that the US takes the moral high ground wherever possible. What's striking to me is how professional those in the military are. The vast, vast majority put their job and the code ahead of their personal feelings. It's amazing to me that the number of people in our military who don't uphold the code is so low that it's easy to memorize each and every one of their names.

We have the most professional fighting force in the history of the world; that's why we win wars. Once we start acting like the savages we're slaughtering, or condoning the actions of those who do, we're lost.
10 posted on 05/24/2005 2:05:34 PM PDT by NJ_gent (Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.)
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To: ProudVet77

Everything you are saying is true, but we screwed the pooch by embedding the media with our combat units, and with that came closer scrutiny. In my humble opinion the media should have been kept out like they were during Desert Storm. This is probably one of the most touchy subjects. Before we deploy we are drilled with Rules of Engagement, Law of Land Warfare, and proper handling of EPW classes. We are also told to watch what we say and do around the media clow who may be with us. Once the allegation is out there is no choice but to do a thorough investigation. The Falujia incident was bullshiite, it should have never gone as far as it did, but once the film went out the genie was out of the bottle, and a good Marine had his life put on hold. It sucked, but he was cleared.


11 posted on 05/24/2005 2:09:38 PM PDT by sean327 (All men are created equal, then some become Marines!)
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To: sean327
No, he's being tried for abusing a detainee. As an officer he is supposed to set the example. He failed, and is being tried. If he didn't do it he will walk.

It's interesting. Military Freepers tend to look at instances of prisoner abuse by our military with a sense of disgust. It's generally the armchair warriors on FR who cheer this type of behavior on.

12 posted on 05/24/2005 2:13:18 PM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made. " -Bismarck)
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To: sean327
The DoD should have some chutzpah and not let the media decide things. I'm sure Ernie Pyle(sp?) saw a lot that he never reported. I suspect the battalion commander could have chose not to prosecute if he wanted, even though the press had shown it all over.
Even the charges of punching prisoner. I got punched plenty of times during my SERE training. Big deal. Let this SEAL get back to his duty. The negative effect this can have on morale is troubling. We'll be lucky if this SEAL stays with the Navy.
13 posted on 05/24/2005 2:20:01 PM PDT by ProudVet77 (Warning: Frequent sarcastic posts)
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To: SmithL

Assuming he did it, which is by no means a certainty, he ought to reflect on two basic rules of combat leadership - never lose control, and never take pictures.


14 posted on 05/24/2005 2:26:32 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: sean327
No, he's being tried for abusing a detainee.

No, he's being tried for allegedly abusing a detainee. Until he is found guilty of that crime he is an Navy Seal Officer who should get the benefit of the doubt from us.

15 posted on 05/24/2005 2:31:29 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: cynicom
You are a fool! The Military Justice system is far better than anything in civilian life. Truly a jury of your peers!
16 posted on 05/24/2005 2:34:36 PM PDT by Keyga8tor
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To: Keyga8tor
And you Sir have a FOOL for your attorney.

Having been familiar with both military and civil justice systems, both are political from top to bottom. The rule of thumb that you get justice from the best judge that money can buy applies in both systems.

The military is one notch worse because they can hide their goings on, always have and always will. Only a fool would think differently.

17 posted on 05/24/2005 2:48:19 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: SmithL
What BS. Allowing lawyers to dictate rules of engagement is like allowing them into any other field: Wherever there is a lawyer in charge, it's going to end up a mess.

In fighting Islamic terror, we have to remember that we are NOT fighting uniformed national soldiers, but monsters who have traded their very humanity for a nebulous afterlife in "paradise".

They respect no law but the transcribed rantings of an illiterate 7th century child-raping bandit. Their culture regards qualities like our mercy, decency and compassion as weaknesses to be used against us.

With that said, I advocate one, single rule of engagement when dealing with Allah's "soldiers":

NO QUARTER, NO PRISONERS. If they use a religious structure as a hideout or ammunition dump, blast it to rubble. If prisoners are taken, they are to be interrogated and dispatched with extreme prejudice.

All this yapping about "we must be better than our enemies" is a bunch of feel-good BS - the kind of thing some ivory-tower academic socialist would come up with and then stick his smug nose in the air.

It's the job of the military to kill people and break stuff, not to coddle mass murderers and make sure they get their cup of warm milk before bedtime.

Prosecuting an American soldier for roughing up a murderous thug is DEAD wrong. Were it up to me, the guy would be receiving a medal on the steps of the White House.

IMHO, sometimes you have to fight evil with evil.

18 posted on 05/24/2005 4:44:18 PM PDT by FierceDraka (The Democratic Party - Aiding and Abetting The Enemies of America Since 1968)
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To: sean327
I am not condoning the abuse of prisoners, I would like to have the whole story. What set these guys off, did they have a shootout and this guy was a total ass or what.

I have seen our guys in Iraq go out of their way to take a prisoner, sometimes at the risk of their own lives. I know from experience that in Vietnam if we caught someone setting up a booby trap or planting an anti tank mine we shot them.
19 posted on 05/24/2005 5:38:16 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: cynicom

I have never started a flame war, but I will with you! I have been involved with military justice for 24+ years. If you can match that, then I will listen to you. You remind me of a squealing "I didn't do drugs" NJP loser. Flame away knucklehead!


20 posted on 05/24/2005 6:34:24 PM PDT by Keyga8tor
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