Posted on 05/22/2005 6:53:03 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - To the uninformed, this weekend gathering here may have seemed like a church revival, full of zeal and fervor. But worshipping God was most decidedly not part of the agenda.
The attendees of the "All Atheists Weekend" gathered to discuss what they call the rise of fundamentalism in the U.S. and the blurring of lines between church and state.
Attendees also took time to view documentaries that question the historical accuracy of the Bible - and to hear lectures about the dangers of religious icons on public property and problems with President Bush's so-called "faith-based initiative," which seeks to give religious groups equal footing in seeking federal grants to provide social services.
Organizers said they expected more than 250 people to take part in the event, which featured a lecture by Ellen Johnson, the president of American Atheists. The gathering began Friday and continued through Sunday at various spots throughout the city.
The religious right's increasing involvement in U.S. politics has triggered an angry backlash among the godless, say Bay area atheist groups, five of which organized the weekend event.
"It's time for us to push back," said psychologist Jaime Arcila, 52, of San Francisco, who was accompanied by his two children, Javier, 15, and Amanda, 12, in a tiny theater Saturday night just south of downtown.
Arcila, who is not an official member of any atheist group, said he was prompted to attend Saturday's showing of "The God Who Wasn't There," along with about 100 other people, because of what he sees as a growing intolerance in the U.S. for people with alternative views and lifestyles.
Arcila, who was raised by Catholic parents, said the nation needs more dialogue about "peace, tolerance, justice, and love," not exclusion based on a difference of ideas.
Ali, a 36-year-old native Iranian, agreed. He declined to give his last name because he said he wants to return to his Muslim-dominated homeland someday and fears that he could be persecuted should he be identified as an atheist.
Ali said he knows all too well the effects of religious fundamentalism on a society from his own experiences in his native country.
Nations that accept only one set of values or beliefs are "restrictive and stifling," Ali said.
"I was a Muslim but stopped believing after a lot of pain and after a lot of thought," he said. "Being here at this event is encouraging me not to be afraid. It strengthens me and helps me stand up for what I believe."
But just how tolerant of Christianity and other religions are the atheists?
"We don't hate Christians," said David Fitzgerald, 40, an insurance broker and member of San Francisco Atheists. "People in this country are free to believe in whatever they want."
Nonetheless, during the Saturday night movie, the crowd booed and hissed when a photo of Pat Robertson was displayed on the screen.
Robertson, the founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network and a former U.S. presidential candidate, is a leader in the efforts by some religious groups to return America and its government to Christian values.
Fitzgerald offered no apologies.
"Robertson and other Theocrats scare the hell out of us," Fitzgerald said. "They want to turn a democracy into a theocracy. Even Christians are afraid of that."
Sounds like a meeting of the village atheists. Looking back at the twentieth century, we should beware of any atheistic cultural movement, even a tiny one like this. But the more common problem today is Christians who live as practical atheists. Jesus preferred hostility to Himself to indifference to Himself.
God Proves That God Does Not Exist
• Philosophy & Religion
OMG @ 2:29 pm
I studied theology and philosophy. We had to learn about all the great thinkers throughout the ages, and what they had to say about God. Basically there are 2 schools of thought: One says our lives are predetermined by a higher power, and the other one says that everything we do is up to us, without a higher power guiding us.
I have always found the arguments against the existance of a god far more convincing than the arguments for the existence of a god.
A smart man once said “extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.” In other words, I might take your word for it if you tell me it rained yesterday, but you’re gonna have to show me some proof if you’re going to claim it rained yesterday because a unicorn peed on a rainbow.
Basically those who claim there is a god don’t have one single convincing argument. Whenever I debate this stuff with them, the bottom line from their end is: “If there is no god, then where did all this come from?”
That is not an argument, it’s a question. And the question is illogical if you think it through.
Why do they ask that question? Because they can’t wrap their minds around the idea that all the stuff around us, the universe, has always existed. It was never created. It never started. It was always there.
Then the pro-god crowd replies: “That’s impossible! Nothing can have existed forever. It must have started at one point. It must have been created at some point. It must have been created by god!”
That’s when I ask them: “So, when was god created?”
And they reply: “God always existed. He was never created. He never started. He was always there.”
See the flaw in that logic?
There is absolutely no reason why there needs to be a god, because the definition of god itself is a paradox. If it is possible that something called “god” can exist forever, without ever having been created, then that very same possibility applies to something called “universe". So the very idea that god has existed “forever without being created", at the very same time eliminates the need for a god altogether.
It simply does not make any kind of sense to refuse to believe that the universe could have existed forever (no creator!), but at the same time believe that god could have existed forever.
Bottom-line: If you believe it is possible god existed forever, you just proved that god was completely unnecessary, because the universe could have just aswell existed forever, without there ever being a god creating it.
Ali is right, but the US is not that kind of nation. The atheists are upset that religious people are agitating to be included in the public square, but those religious folks would not be out there if the atheists had not convinced Federal Judges to legislate from the bench and remove any semblance of religion from public places. The atheists created this problem for themselves. They're gonna have to deal with it.
Many religious folks frankly don't care how other live their lives, as long as they keep it to themselves and don't try to force others to accept their proclivities, or worse, try to teach kids that those activities are normal.
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