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To: HolgerDansk
First of all, the second link I posted was the ASEE statistics for engiineering degrees awarded in the 2003-2004 year. These are the latest statistics, since the 2004-2005 year is not completed yet, unless I missed something.

So, let's look at the actual numbers of all engineering degrees awarded in the most recent school year:

Bachelor's Degrees By Residency
*Domestic 92.2%
*Foreign Nationals 7.8%

A total of 72,893 Bachelor Degrees in engineering were awarded.

Master's Degrees by Residency
*Domestic 54.5%
*Foreign Nationals 45.5%

A total of 41,181 Master's Degrees in engineering were awarded.

Doctoral Degrees by Residency

*Domestic 42.2%
*Foreign Nationals 57.8%

A total of 6,673 Doctorate Degrees in Engineering were awarded.

Here is the link again for the Most recent 2003-2004 Year In Numbers for those who care to review.

So, I find it interesting, if not misleading, that you only stated the Doctorate Degrees stats, whicch represents less than 10% of the number of Bachelor's and only 16% of the number of Master's, both of which are either overwhelmingly or mostly Domestic students.

Nice spin.

Now, back to the ASEE, whom I believe should be the final authority on actual data. I quote (can't cut and paste off the PDF) from their report on the results from the 2003-2004 (most recent) school year:

Engineering degrees increased at all levels during the 2003-04 academic year, thanks in part to computer science. Bachelor's degrees and Master's degrees grew for the fifth consecutive year. Engineering colleges awarded 72,893 bachelor's degrees, including 9,156 in computer science. Excluding computer science, bachelor's degrees increased by just under 2 percent.

Is the rest of your data this stale?

Uh, care to make a retraction on that?

Perhaps you don't work in "high tech"

I do.

...and are therefore unaware of the fact that the vast majority of venture capital, which used to fund high tech innovation here in the US, has been going to China and India during the past five years?

You may be right, but please provide a source with details. Even if true, this is not the death knell of our technology sector by any means, especially without knowing the projects being invested in and the current or projected ROI. Spending VC $$$ is not the last word, producing results is.

I'd suggest you go back to the drawing board on your doom and gloom scenarios.

139 posted on 05/18/2005 12:34:13 PM PDT by NewLand (Faith in The Lord trumps all!)
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To: NewLand
First of all, the second link I posted was the ASEE statistics for engiineering degrees awarded in the 2003-2004 year.

True. But that's what makes it irrelevant. The key issue is declining enrollments, which will show up in 3-4 years as a decline in the number of degrees awarded. You're looking at the end of the pipeline, where everything still looks fine, while I'm warning you that the input into the pipeline dropped off by 19% in the 2002-2003 academic year, and then further declined another 10% last year.

So, I find it interesting, if not misleading, that you only stated the Doctorate Degrees stats, whicch represents less than 10% of the number of Bachelor's and only 16% of the number of Master's, both of which are either overwhelmingly or mostly Domestic students.

You're comparing apples with oranges. An undergraduate engineer does not do the same job as one with a graduate degree. The latter do actual innovation and research, are responsible not only for the majority of patents but also business startups. And again, the unwillingness of American undergraduate engineers to continue their eductation is telling -- why put in the time and money when there's no reward here?

You may be right, but please provide a source with details. Even if true, this is not the death knell of our technology sector by any means, especially without knowing the projects being invested in and the current or projected ROI. Spending VC $$$ is not the last word, producing results is.

Sadly, as far as I know nobody keeps statistics on this particular topic, though I can tell you that of the three pitches I've consulted on over the past three years, in 31 of 33 VC meetings, the first or second question was "how do you feel about moving to China (or India)?".

Techology innovation is a pipeline process, and it's important to remember that the output of the pipeline tells you nothing about the health of what goes on inside.

147 posted on 05/18/2005 2:01:22 PM PDT by HolgerDansk ("Oh Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.)
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