Rumsfeld is McNamara - (Rummy fans aren't going to like this one, but Bowden has a point!)

MENS NEWS DAILY.COM ^ | MAY 16, 2005 | JAMES ATTICUS BOWDEN

[CHARLITE]

What is interesting, if you look back on the past 4 years, is that Rumsfeld was seen as a "rock star," and talked about (even by a then somewhat fawning MSM) as "the sexiest senior citizen on the planet!" That was during our swift overthrow of the Taliban in late '01 into early '02.
Rummy's stock then plummeted 18 months later, and by June of 2003 when the insurgency got under way in Iraq, he was excoriated and called a variety of unflattering names.........but then, so was President Bush.

What I don't think was feasible in post-invasion Iraq was to even locate Saddam's army. It is now well known that there were orders already in place for all of the forces to simply melt back into their neighborhoods, and to re-emerge as an "insurgency," which is what happened, so I'm not getting the method by which we could have kept them on, retrained them and then had them fighting with us - drop leaflets?

[CHARLITE]

Ping! FYI!

Char :)

[bnelson44]

" It is now well known that there were orders already in place for all of the forces to simply melt back into their neighborhoods, and to re-emerge as an "insurgency," which is what happened,"

And the evidence of this is, what?

[TexasTransplant]

Bull, the comparison doesn't even rate the time to read it.

[Jumper]

Bump - 1st Battalion, 508th Infantry Regiment (Airborne), 82nd Airborne Division from July 74 - Jan 77. Red Devils All The Way!

[RobbyS]

Evidence? Evidence is for other guys.

[Nyboe]

well you got one thing right

quote "Iraqi cities and villages can be isolated physically with good fields of fire in the surrounding desert. There are no sanctuaries"

and that is by design, we purposely picked Iraq to fight the war on terrorism for that exact reason.

The libs never seem to get this.

[Cicero]

The one officer named as criticizing Rumsfeld, Shinseki, was a disaster. We are well rid of him.

The primary reason that so many Saddamite troops were able to melt back into the landscape was the betrayal by our ally Turkey, which no one could reasonably have expected. As a result, there was no northern front, and those are the troops who later turned up in the Sunni Triangle.

The writer also offers no alternatives to the way the war was fought. I just don't find this credible.

[John Lenin]

Leaving the Iraqi old guard in charge and having Saddam still out there would have been an even bigger disaster. I don't buy the thinking that you go to war with a country and than turn it over to the previous military within months.

[Horn_Dude]

Charlite,

Stop wasting our time.

[SevenMinusOne]

Additionally, the big shock and awe bombing campaign was a bust. It didn’t collapse the regime. It killed civilians and destroyed records that would be very useful for the nationwide intelligence needed to restore security.

Simply false - Shock & Awe tied up whole Iraqi divisions while our lead units positioned themselves strategically all across Iraq -

This whole article is BS - The fact is with Rumsfeld plan was an enormous success (The fact is Tommy Franks was 100% in support of this plan and has said so numerous times EVEN since he left the active military).

Iraq's main military folded in less than 3 weeks (while many of these current day critics were saying back then would take months to achieve victory and a min of 5,000 US KIA)

The other factor that is completely ignored here is that Iraq is part of the greater WOT - It is not separate from the war in Afghanistan or the WOT around the globe - It is part of it!!

And we are winning this war in amazing fashion. All of the Rumsfeld critics would have told you to pound sand if you would have told them in 2001 we would have won a war to remove the Taliban from Afghanistan and a war to remove Saddam from power in Iraq with less than 2000 American KIA.

They all would have laughed and said you were crazy - Yet, now they are complaining we "didn't win good enough".

[stevem]

I believe Rumsfeld cares about the lives connected with the U.S. military. I believe his efforts are toward maximum economy in those lives. I don't think McNamara ever cared about anytning or anyone except McNamara. I think he revelled in press accolades of him as an intellectual, which is fascinating since there is little evidence that, after he joined the Kennedy administration, he ever did one smart thing.

With this in mind, any other comparison is irrelevant.

[DuncanWaring]

The Army Chief of Staff, GEN. Eric Shinseki, who was let go, knew it.

Also could be known as Eric "Black Beret" Shinseki, creator of the Army of Self-esteem.

Anyone who made the upper ranks of the military during the Clinton administration is suspect.

Just because this guy disagrees with Donald Rumsfeld doesn't mean Donald Rumsfeld is wrong.

[axes_of_weezles]

This Author is a real peice of work.
Who The F*** makes war plans for the ARMY - Rummy? Folks like this Turd who fail to realize Rummy does not micromanage, but will ultimately get blame or kudos whatever happens. This dirtbag is a real armchair general with mastery of the obvious. Where was he in '99 or '01? In Eucom or Centcom OPLANS perhaps? If anyone deserves blame its the ARMY war planners, not the Theater CINC or Rummy. Screw the Army, the Marines are doing most of the work in Iraq.
Sure, the army needs 400 Divisions to pacify Iraq and I shure as heck would not want to be on the ground during any "shock & aWE" campaign.
The Army always bitches because it can't always have things it's way.

[swilhelm73]

It is now well known that there were orders already in place for all of the forces to simply melt back into their neighborhoods, and to re-emerge as an "insurgency," which is what happened,

I've seen this repeated in a number of places, but I've never seen any evidence of it whatsoever, and frankly, it flies in the face of the historical timeline which saw the "insurgency" grow in direct relation to how free of a hand Syria and Iran felt they had based on internal American opposition to Bush.

So...could you provide some evidence for this particular theory you claim?

[dead]

What is interesting, if you look back on the past 4 years, is that Rumsfeld was seen as a "rock star," and talked about (even by a then somewhat fawning MSM) as "the sexiest senior citizen on the planet!"

Thanks for the trip down "People Magazine" memory lane, but does it have any relevance whatsoever to a discussion of military strategy?

What do you think of his cologne?

[PzLdr]

The C/S Rumsfeld ran out was right. You need troops on the ground to CONTROL the place after you take it. It amazes me how we took a couple of years to de-Nazify Germany, but a couple of days to de-Baathicize Iraq. Rumsfeld's failures are twofold: his hubris (check out the retired Gen. he brought back to be Army C/S), and his belief that one size warplan fits all. Sorry boys and girls, the Chinese aren't going to fall to some A-teams and the US Air Force. Rumsfeld has won his fight with the Army. But I wouldn't be too happy about the fact, or the victor, if I were you.

[datura]

Screw the Army, the Marines are doing most of the work in Iraq.

Today.

[jec41]

The only mistake that Rummy has made is not shooting MSM.
It would all be over.

[axes_of_weezles]

How much time did the Army have to plan for Iraq? They had 12 YEARS since the fall of Kuwait. Rummy and rest of the JCS did not want to keep the status quo after 9/11.

The Army has to get smarter about it's operations. It has to be more flexible and leaner and lighter. The US does not have the airlift and sealift to put divisions on the ground in days. It took them 6 months to get ready. The other services were in the AOR within weeks, not months or years.

I can understand where Rummy is coming from. Hell - the Army has not gotten out of Germany, Kosovo, Korea,Japan, Egypt and Haiti is still a steaming pile.

As for China, there are plenty of strategic targets that will make life unbearable for the Chinese. I would not want to set foot in the country, wartime or not. And if something does happen; they will not be driving tanks across the Pacific or Airdropping Chairborne rangers during the first strikes.