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To: liberallarry

The misleading claim that the Baltics were ceded to the USSR before Yalta ignores the earlier disagreement between Roosevelt and Churchill about the Baltics.
Before officially ending the War, Churchill wanted to prolong the war 6 months in order to roust Russia from the Baltics. This would have meant that troops would move at least from Poland to Greece in a liberating march. Roosevelt strongly opposed Churchill. He said that the US citizenry would not tolerate 6 more months of war.
In fact there was no question of war or of spilling blood. By a grand victory march to the Mediterranian the Western Allies would have established the overthrow of the Third Reich in the Baltics and enforced national boundaries. Russia could not have opposed this move militarily. However, just as in East Germany, Stalin strongly objected to the Allied liberation of the Baltics based on Russia's geopolitical interests.
In fact the US citizenry was chomping at the bit to free the Baltics in a grand victory parade of freedom and democracy. Many Americans hailed from these countries and had strong feelings against Russian occupation. The American people understood that the war was about freedom from opression.
I remember my German and British grandparents were depressed for years over America's failure to liberate these nations so sorely opressed by Hitler. There was a great sense of betrayal here in the US over the failure of the Allies to liberate those nations for whom we went to war.
The left has a deeply rooted vested interest in rewriting history. Their primary impetus seems always to soften criticism of Marxist states and make Utopian claims about socialism. The left equivocates in the face of ghastly realities of mass murder and all forms of vicious opression by Marxist tyrants. ("They have not tried pure Communism MY way," remains the idiotic rejoinder.)
Roosevelt's chief negotiator, Alger Hiss, was a Russian plant, a communist and a traitor. That traitor manipulated Roosevelt into supporting 50 years of tyranny in the Baltics.
Roosevelt was, after all, a dying, weak president with no heart left for shedding American blood. That may be the most positive rationale for this remarkable and shocking act of cowardice.


7 posted on 05/15/2005 11:08:32 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE)
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To: Amos the Prophet
I am not saying that Roosevelt couldn't have done better. Mistakes are made by everyone during all wars...and in peacetime too. I'm faulting the arm-chair critics who want to call him less than the great man he was because of these possible mistakes. At Yalta he was a dying man who'd held the reins of power for 12 long years and crafted a record that will stand for the ages. Most of his critics need help with the toilet paper.

As to the particulars;

Is this the Churchill who earlier made a hellish bargain with Stalin involving Greece?
A grand victory march to the Baltics? You're the master strategist are you?
U.S. citizens chomping at the bit to fight on and free the Baltics because many of them hailed from there? What percentage of Americans are of Baltic ancestry? I can tell you that noone I knew felt that way.

Your granparents felt betrayed? Well, my parents didn't even though we lost relatives in the concentration camps that Roosevelt failed to liberate earlier. He did the best he could...and that was damned good.

Please not those old saws about Roosevelt and the Left. Roosevelt had plenty of anti-semites and outright German sympathizers yelling in his ear as well. The man was no fool. He knew who the Communists were, who the Nazis were, where people stood. He was born in the 1880 to a political family. He remembered WWI and the Revolutions which followed. He was President while the Communists and Nazis fought it out on the streets of Europe. He was noone's dupe . He did what he did because he believed it was the best that could be done. As a politician he had no equal and as a President his record will stand with anyone's.

16 posted on 05/15/2005 11:37:59 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: Amos the Prophet
I am not saying that Roosevelt couldn't have done better. Mistakes are made by everyone during all wars...and in peacetime too. I'm faulting the arm-chair critics who want to call him less than the great man he was because of these possible mistakes. At Yalta he was a dying man who'd held the reins of power for 12 long years and crafted a record that will stand for the ages. Most of his critics need help with the toilet paper.

As to the particulars;

Is this the Churchill who earlier made a hellish bargain with Stalin involving Greece?
A grand victory march to the Baltics? You're the master strategist are you?
U.S. citizens chomping at the bit to fight on and free the Baltics because many of them hailed from there? What percentage of Americans are of Baltic ancestry? I can tell you that noone I knew felt that way.

Your granparents felt betrayed? Well, my parents didn't even though we lost relatives in the concentration camps that Roosevelt failed to liberate earlier. He did the best he could...and that was damned good.

Please not those old saws about Roosevelt and the Left. Roosevelt had plenty of anti-semites and outright German sympathizers yelling in his ear as well. The man was no fool. He knew who the Communists were, who the Nazis were, where people stood. He was born in the 1880 to a political family. He remembered WWI and the Revolutions which followed. He was President while the Communists and Nazis fought it out on the streets of Europe. He was noone's dupe . He did what he did because he believed it was the best that could be done. As a politician he had no equal and as a President his record will stand with anyone's.

17 posted on 05/15/2005 11:38:24 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: Amos the Prophet

What other options did we have? Its easy for bush to say 60years later we should of done something for some cheap political gain.

The Soviets had control of all eastern europe and was about to control most of Germany. They had a 5.7 million man army there. They would would have left if FDR said so? Six months of more war is very funny, more like 6 years and alot more than the 400k of American war dead for sure.

We still had Japan to worry about. Even if we could mass produce A-bombs not really sure how that would make us better in the end than the soviets.


19 posted on 05/15/2005 11:44:52 AM PDT by SkoalBandit
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To: Amos the Prophet

"I remember my German and British grandparents were depressed for years over America's failure to liberate these nations so sorely opressed by Hitler. There was a great sense of betrayal here in the US over the failure of the Allies to liberate those nations for whom we went to war."

And if you knew any Russians they were ecstatic over the stupidity of FDR and the triumph of Joe over Franklin. Showed how superior their race was!

I didn't hear this history I lived it and the skewing of the truth done by commies past and present is emphatic. I have opposed on this board those who blame the gift of the Baltic nations to Communism on Churchill!


38 posted on 05/15/2005 1:38:33 PM PDT by Spirited (God, Bless America, ;))
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