"Now weren't we told in 04 that we should support Specter because he is a Republican. Same goes for Collins and Murkowski. Alaska had a chance to elect a real conservative but they went with a RINO. And Sununu knocked off a real conservative and now we are questioning his loyalty. The Republican party is a total joke."
There's a bit wrong here.
First, it looks like Specter, Murkowski, and Sununu will all be supporting the nuclear option. (Though that still doesn't bring us over the finish line in the vote count).
Specter has done fine in his capacity as Judiciary Chair. He may stab the party in the back down the road -- but getting unconditional up-or-down votes for all nominees post-committee is imperative, and he seems to be (reluctantly) with us. Plus, he has made some good arguments on the Senate floor against Reid's insulting compromises, and has noted many of the Dems arguments refute each other.
Murkowski got to her stature due to her APPOINTMENT by her governor father. It's not as if she ran in an open primary, she was the incumbant (albeit unelected). I don't thing GOP party mechanics can be blamed.
Finally, the "real conservative" Sununu primaried in '02 supported Kerry for president in '04. I'd be curious to know if you were aware of that.
IMO, people have these fixed perceptions of Spectre and Republicans in general that they cannot admit may be inaccurate at least insofar as current actions would define.
Spectre does not want to take this vote. No secret he wishes there were another option. It is predictable he'd support anyone tying another path that prevented him having to go on record with this vote. He is remembered for his vote on Bork. He did make comments following election that were incredibly petty and just plain stupid.
Since then what has Spectre done that is really so awful? McCain has stated he will vote against. Voinovich betrays his collegues without even giving them notice over Bolton. Hagel continues to hem and haw and play the second coming of John McCain.
What was Spectre done? Despite his distaste for this aspect of the job, he has brought these nominees one by one out of committee. He has controlled that committe in a way Lugar failed to do a couple of weeks ago. He has made a case that the filibuster is unprincipled more strongly than some that are fully onboard.
Spectre owes the President and, imo, of greater significance if the debt he owes Santorum. Maybe I'm too naive but I suspect Spectre is the type of man that pays his debts. Santorum helped him narrowly win that Penn primary. For santorum to stand a fighting chance, his promise that Spectre was essential to this specific fight needs to be proved true. To repay Santorum, Spectre needs to help him win re-election. That is dependant on this vote. I'm leaning towards Spectre being onboard because he will honor that debt.
Murkowski wants to be a Maverick loved by the MSM, but while I would keep an eye on her, I don't believe this is the battle she will try to make a name for herself on. She knows she barely won election thanks to Bush. Bush on the other hand handily won Alaska. Despite her comments, her constituents would not respect her voting no.
Instead of people whining and espousing the same tired rhetoric (not you) I'd much prefer to see everyone on this board spend their time productively in the weekend leading to the vote by contacting every Senator. Multiple times. Stop griping and take action.
Fact check-
The battle begins officially next week.
Frist is committed to up and down votes.
McConnell (who is NOT a liar) has stated he has the necessary votes.
This means the ONLY thing that can prevent victory is a Senator that has promised their vote changing their mind. The enemy is not Frist, Bush, etc. We know where they stand. It's a waste of time to attack those in our camp. Concentrate on those that may think they can survive the backlash of turning against the Party. make them aware they will NOT be forgiven a betrayal on this critical issue.
Murkowski was up for election in 04 against Tony Knowles. I believe and she did have a primary opponent.
The fact that these three may ulimately vote the "right way" after weeks of being wobbily and hestitating does not change the fact their indecision caused this obstruction to drag on in the first place, nor does it change the fact they may vote the "wrong way" in the near future over SCOTUS appointments and so on. Sununu's daddy, for instance, gave us Souter. We're STILL paying for that one.
>> Specter has done fine in his capacity as Judiciary Chair. He may stab the party in the back down the road -- but getting unconditional up-or-down votes for all nominees post-committee is imperative, and he seems to be (reluctantly) with us. Plus, he has made some good arguments on the Senate floor against Reid's insulting compromises, and has noted many of the Dems arguments refute each other. <<
Specter is back to his old Bork/Thomas mode where he gains conservatives trust by "fighting" for our side long enough to gain seniority and power, then stabbing the party in the back over the next battle. I have no doubt he'll "fight" for us too if they're an appointment to repalce Rehnquist with another conservative. Once some pro-abortion judge "retires" though, Snarlin' will come with some excuse like "this nominee is insenstive to civil rights" to BORK any pro-life nominee. Mark my words.
Specter HAD a great conservative primary opponent, but again, the "only RINOs can win" wing of the party ranted and raved that we HAD to vote for Specter or the "Democrats would control the Senate". Even going by their doomsday scenario where Toomey the Senate race to a Dem, the Senate would be in solid GOP hands today and the judiciary committee would be run by a great conservative Republican. Their scare tacits have proven to have NO basis in reality.
>> Murkowski got to her stature due to her APPOINTMENT by her governor father. It's not as if she ran in an open primary, she was the incumbant (albeit unelected). I don't thing GOP party mechanics can be blamed. <<
Murkowski HAD a conservative challenger in the primary but the "only RINOs can win" wing of party shoved her down our throat and INSISTED a less-qualified, less-reliable Republican appointed by daddy was the "only" candidate who could "win" (in Alaska where over 2/3rds of the state is rock-solid Republican for crying out loud?!) As it was she did a horrible job in the debates with Knowles and only squeaked through BECAUSE of the judge issue that she is now waiving on. We'd be MUCH better with an nominee who won his own right and didn't get the job due to daddy's intervention. America is not a monoracy but the RINO wing of the party insisted we rubber stamp the "heir apprent" to the seat.
>> Finally, the "real conservative" Sununu primaried in '02 supported Kerry for president in '04. I'd be curious to know if you were aware of that. <<
Sununu is a lukewarm conservative. The fact Bob Smith endorsed Kerry out of spite does not change the fact that Smith had a more conservative voting record that Palestiaian-sympatherizer Sununu. National Journey said he voted more conservative than Jesse Helms. And the fact the now RINO luvin' NH voted for Kerry (and well as a RAT for governor who was NOT endorsed by Smith!) says more about how they're getting more and more liberal in their voting habits precisely because of Sununu, not Smith. NH has voted further and further leftward ever since Sununu won that primary.
Chuck Hagel also had a MORE CONSERVATIVE primary opponent, but there was absolutely no reason not to select him, since Nebraska is one of the most ultra-Republican states in the coutnry where winning the primary is almost guranteed to result in winning the general election. But again the pro-RINO "wing" of the party promoted Hagel over Nebraska A.G. Don Stenberg. Hopefully that mistake will now be corrected if Sternberg is nominated to take out Ben Nelson, but the damage has already been done with Hagel.
John Warner was NOT the choice of party primary voters, he LOST to a MORE CONSERVATIVE candidate who unforunately died in a plane crash before the general election. Guess who the "powers that be" in the party tapped to replace him? Why, "moderate" John Warner the 2nd place finalist in the primary. Hmmm.
Susan Collins , another one of those "electable" moderates, finished a pathetic THIRD place in the 1994 general election for Governor. Naturally the RINO-luvin' wing of the party tapped her U.S. Senate for her "comeback" and promoted her as the "only woman" in a primary with two male conservative candidates.
Mike DeWine , George Voinvoich's little moderate mini-me, was also touted by the powers that be in heavily Republican Ohio, where Republicans hold about 90% of the statewide offices. Another candidate could have won, but the powers that be cleared the field for DeWine.
Let's face it, we're in this gridlock sitution where the Dems slap the majority party around because the "only RINOs can win" establishment wing of the party backed inferior candidates in Alaska, Ohio, Nebraska, Virgina, and other staunch conservative areas. More conservative candidates that would have represented the Republican rank-and-file better were rejected in favor of wishy-washy RINOs.