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As I have commented elsewhere, the sorry spectacle was pure, unadulterated PARANOIA. This author puts things in a bit of perspective and represents the views of many of us in the aerospace industry

By the way, one of the clearest lessons potential terrorists could take from the events in D.C. would be how easy it is to create a mass diversion to set the stage for a real attack: In other words, get everyone hyperventilating and running around like idiots over a small airplane, dashing into the subways and tunnels of D.C. and then ....

1 posted on 05/13/2005 2:03:48 AM PDT by LukeSW
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To: LukeSW

Bull! Even a C-150 could carry something really bad.

The instructor pilot should never be in command of an airplane again..


2 posted on 05/13/2005 2:12:27 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: LukeSW

***"For every action, an identical and hyperbolic overreaction."***

Now that's funny.


3 posted on 05/13/2005 2:12:54 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: LukeSW

Freak out over a plane that can do minimal damage, including explosives, and ignore huge trucks that can carry literal tons of high explosives almost to the doorstep of any government building.


4 posted on 05/13/2005 2:13:48 AM PDT by Crazieman (If Con is the opposite of Pro, what is the opposite of Progress?)
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To: LukeSW
A Cessna 150 does not a warplane make.

A Boeing 767 does not a warplane make either Fool!!!

How much anthrax can a Cessna 150 carry?

5 posted on 05/13/2005 2:16:56 AM PDT by konaice
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To: LukeSW
Re the FO comment... Many gung ho heros here were calling the pilots all kinds of names etc and were willing to have shot them down. These people need to know how often top of the line airline crews become "confused" and make horrible mistakes.

These mistakes include landing at the wrong airport. All one has to do is check past FAA records for such. Pilot heros that have never made mistakes are kidding themselves, it happens.

6 posted on 05/13/2005 2:20:14 AM PDT by cynicom (<p)
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To: LukeSW
Stopped reading after this:

Shame On The Security Establishment ..in the first place, for being unable to distinguish between a real threat and a bogus one. The physics of the Cessna 150 make it an improbable terror weapon.

And I wonder what his reaction would have been if security personnel didn't "overreact" and we found out too late that the improbable terror weapon was filled with something like anthrax (which is a very real possibility). Some people are just never satisfied; you take precautions against a catastrophe and you are being silly, don't take precautions and a catastrophe happens and you are at incompetent.

The security personnel in this situation acted very reasonably and should be commended, not ridiculed.

10 posted on 05/13/2005 2:29:38 AM PDT by frankiep
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To: LukeSW

Isn't the fact that it was a Cessna 150 a bit of hindsight here? My understanding is that nobody knew what it was until the F-16's got up there to take a look. IIRC, the plane had no transponder and the pilots were not responding to hails.


12 posted on 05/13/2005 2:38:38 AM PDT by Nick Danger (Honey, Intel wants to go outside)
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To: LukeSW
A Cessna 150 does not a warplane make.
Oh, really? Not even with anthrax, or sarin, or ricin, or whatever?

And what about probes, testing our defenses?

I saw an interview with one of the F16 pilots yesterday and he was absolutely calm and rational and in the intervew he calmly and rationally related the calm and rational actions he took, under calm and rational orders. It was all by-the-book.

I would trust that pilot with my life. I wouldn't trust the writer of this anti-defence hysteria with my car. He'd probably leave the keys in the ignition in the parking lot.

15 posted on 05/13/2005 3:00:02 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: LukeSW
The plane was capable of carrying biological weapons of immense destructive power. A single letter killed people and destroyed property not too long ago right here in my town and where I worked.

The rule is for planes to stay away from the White House, etc. a certain distance.

Except that the plane would likely have crashed and burned in my neighborhood, serious consideration should have been made to taking it out when it violated the airspace and refused to communicate.

There is a war on. Unfortunately we are not able to restrict the impacts of that war to the folks who deny it exists. If we could, we would.

20 posted on 05/13/2005 3:17:51 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: LukeSW

I notice this is published with about 36 hours of hindsight to assess the situation. I'm sure if we had a day and a half to react to every security breach things would go differently.


24 posted on 05/13/2005 3:30:45 AM PDT by Flyer (I've seen your king come and go here)
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To: LukeSW

It should have been shot down.
If you aren't going to bother to learn how to read the instruments, then shame on you.


25 posted on 05/13/2005 3:31:56 AM PDT by mabelkitty
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To: LukeSW
The mighty 150 has a gross weight of 1,500 to 1,600 lbs, or about half the weight of a compact car. Even a 172 is lighter gross than the empty weight of my 1965 mustang (~2,500), which is pretty light by new-car standards. I think a typical Camry or similar vehicle is about 3,800 lb. You just can't do a lot of damage with 2,000 lbs unless it's all explosives... I know a little about blowing things up, and served for 25 years alongside the guys with the equivalent of a PhD in blowing things up, the 12BS and 18C demo men of the Army Special Forces. If we can't figure out how to destroy a big, strong building with a Cessna 150, and we can't, it's a pretty safe bet that Osama or whoever can't do it either: he puts on his baggy pants one leg at a time.

...and if the Cessna is carrying a fresh nuclear weapon from North Korea (or soon Iran)...

27 posted on 05/13/2005 3:33:18 AM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: LukeSW
And you can be sure that our enemies are very aware of how much hysteria a puny little Cessna caused our capital.

Shameful indeed.
34 posted on 05/13/2005 3:41:22 AM PDT by Bullish
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To: LukeSW

Could a Cessna 150 contain several hundred pounds of C-4? Yes.

Could a Cessna 150 contain a dirty bomb? Yes.

Could a Cessna 150 contain biological agents? Yes.

Could a Cessna 150 contain chemical agents? Yes.

Luke, my friend, you are as wrong as can be that a small aircraft is no threat.


38 posted on 05/13/2005 3:47:49 AM PDT by Beckwith (I knew Churchill, and Ward Churchill is no Churchill . . . he ain't no Indian either . . .)
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To: LukeSW

Interesting post!


40 posted on 05/13/2005 3:49:50 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: LukeSW; Howlin; Timesink; Utah Girl; hosepipe; backhoe; FITZ; Happy2BMe; ...

This is a Cessna 150

A suitcase nuke or suitcase bomb is a very compact and portable nuclear weapon and could have the dimensions of 60 x 40 x 20 centimeters or 24 x 16 x 8 inches. The smallest possible bomb-like object would be a single critical mass of plutonium (or U-233) at maximum density under normal conditions.

The Pu-239 weighs 10.5 kg and is 10.1 cm across. It doesn't take much more than a single critical mass to cause significant explosions ranging from 10-20 tons. These types of weapons can also be as big as two footlockers.

The physics of the Cessna 150 make it an improbable terror weapon. Indeed, we have an incident to show us that a Cessna 150 is not much threat to the White House.

A Cessna 150 does not a warplane make.

A Cessna 150 waould make a dangerous warplane indeed .

Government Alert: Hospital Security Breach

Filed under: — admin @ 7:08 am

This really has federal authorities puzzled - intruders masquerading as doctors and inspectors probing hospital security. But there is no evidence the cases are connected, including two in New Jersey. Hospital officials and security experts say the similarities are disturbing.

It happened on Easter Sunday. Three men of middle-eastern descent entered a Sussex County hospital posing as physicians.

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Watch For Impostors, Homeland Security Warns City Hospitals

Filed under: — admin @ 6:00 am

New York City hospitals are on the lookout for impostors trying to scope out health-care facilities and locate radioactive materials following warnings late last month from the Department of Homeland Security and the city Police Department about an emerging pattern of “suspicious incidents” in some American cities.

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Stowaway on American nuke-powered aircraft carrier

Filed under: — admin @ 6:53 pm

A Newport man who boarded an American nuclear-powered aircraft carrier anchored in The Solent has been made subject to an anti-social behaviour order and banned from named sensitive areas.

Abdoul Masmoud Yessoufou, 37, whose address was given at Portsmouth Magistrates’ Court on Wednesday as East Street, Newport, admitted entering a prohibited area at Portsmouth Docks.
The court was told that Yessoufou was found on the USS Harry S. Truman at the weekend after he strolled past guards and hitched a ride out to the carrier on a boat used by sailors on runs ashore.

Yessoufou had previously appeared before Uxbridge Magistrates three times this year for entering restricted zones at Heathrow. He also reached the side of an aircraft at Southampton Airport in January.

Read Article

44 posted on 05/13/2005 3:55:09 AM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: LukeSW
Well, gee, okay. Some crack pot self-appointed security expert apparently knows more about defending the capitol in time of war against threats than the Pentagon.

Move over Rummy.

The idiots flying the Cessna refused to acknowledge and had no transponder. They continued to fly into the ADIZ - even though they KNEW of it's presence. Only a complete a**wipe would be unable to recognize BY SIGHT that they were flying into DC Airspace and NOT realize that, gee, maybe we should turn back!

The author (and to be fair, many others as well) simply ASSUMES that the WH was the target. Based on what evidence?? I can think of a great many targets within the DC Metro Area which would be quite lucrative around noon on a nice spring day - none of which is "hardened".

BUT - this JERK starts his diatribe by denouncing the very people charged with protecting US!

Review the history of terrorism sometime Mr Omniscient Pilot. Seldom if ever are "buildings" themselves the target. It is almost ALWAYS the people who are the target. If a symbolic building CAN be targeted at the same time, so much the better (for the terrorist) but the place is secondary to the people present there!!

I will agree that the reactions of some of the security forces was a bit extreme (in hindsight) - but consider - most likely the ONLY word these people received was "a plane is approaching", not "a single engine Cessna 150, an improbable terrorist weapon, weighing a mere 1,500 lbs is approaching".

It is attitudes like YOURS which does more to endanger the safety of US Citizens than an occasional "false alarm".

No one was harmed by the precautions taken, unless you count some soiled undies as harm. Many COULD have been harmed had the precautions not been taken and the incident had been "real".

No sir, SHAME ON YOU!
46 posted on 05/13/2005 3:59:30 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: LukeSW
Dear Mr. O'Brien:

You have no idea what kind of threat that plane might have posed, regardless of its size, weight and capacity. Would you rather have it crash onto a busy D.C. street killing a few innocent people, or treat it as a possible threat and save those peoples' lives? And, as others in this thread have pointed out, could it not have have been carrying biological agents of some kind, and could those agents have been fairly efficiently dispersed from the air? And lastly, would you rather we not treat such incursions as threats thus paving the way for some enterprising terrorist to use a light single-engine plane to kill innocent people in our nations capitol?

Thanks for listening...

Frikkin' idiot...
49 posted on 05/13/2005 4:07:47 AM PDT by LIConFem (Mein Luftkissenboot ist mit Aalen voll.)
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To: LukeSW

I'm sick of this. Washington DC DID NOT go in a panic mode. I was in DC and outside of the capitol building nobody went anywhere. In fact, I was outside for lunch at the time and the streets were no busier than usual and I'm only 4 blocks from the White House. Don't believe everything you hear on TV.


52 posted on 05/13/2005 4:17:26 AM PDT by thathamiltonwoman
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To: LukeSW
What we have here is a pilot acting with typical pilot hubris. He is simply taking the opportunity to say that he is not as stupid, bad or uncoordinated then some other pilot. I'll bet the author can actually walk and chew gun at the same time.

God knows, a guy that flys is taking his (and other) life into his own hands. He sure as hell better believe in himself. The risk comes when the hubris makes the pilot bold, thus increasing his chances of not becoming old.

54 posted on 05/13/2005 4:25:50 AM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Recall Barbara Boxer)
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