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To: HamiltonJay
is of course ludicrous

You should probably explain why Free Trade is, of course, ludicrous. Unpack your ideas a bit :0)

If American jobs are getting hosed by outsourcing then America is still getting wealthier, by getting the same goods and services for less. More wealth means more jobs, not less. There's an uncomfortable period of transition, granted. But if what you are doing isn't competitive in the world market then you are either looking for a new job or you've living in a pampered, tariff-protected industry. Which is like living off welfare.

163 posted on 05/12/2005 11:01:39 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: agere_contra; HamiltonJay
If American jobs are getting hosed by outsourcing then America is still getting wealthier, by getting the same goods and services for less. More wealth means more jobs, not less.

Hit the nail square on.

Here is a good article that explains this in depth should HJ bother to read it.

Bruce Bartlett: Outsourcing Myths Debunked

From the article:

for every $1 spent by a U.S. corporation on outsourcing to India, only 33 cents stayed in India. The other 67 cents came back to the U.S. in the form of cost savings, new exports, and repatriated profits. However, productivity gains add another 45 to 47 cents of value to the U.S. economy. Thus, on balance, the U.S. economy gains $1.12 to $1.14 for every $1 invested in outsourcing.

Ten Myths About Jobs and Outsourcing (Heritage Foundation again)

168 posted on 05/12/2005 11:26:54 AM PDT by Mase
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To: agere_contra
But if what you are doing isn't competitive in the world market then you are either looking for a new job or you've living in a pampered, tariff-protected industry. Which is like living off welfare.

The only tariff protected industries in the U.S. are:
1) Public sector employment (much of it unionized)
2) Healthcare (benefits from import bans, subsidized by an endless stream of public tax dollars)
3) Banking (publically underwritten by your tax dollars)
4) Insurance (mandatory consumption, public underwriting)
5) Legal (only US licensed lawyers may practice in US courts)
6) Agriculture (farm aid, importation bans, favorable export agreements)

So the only real slugs have to be in those groups.

So what are you doing about those:
- should we kill off Fannie Mae? and the FDIC
- Do we end medicaid, medicare, perscription benefits, etc..?
- Do we internationalize the legal system and burn the constitution?
- Do we end farm aid, and food import bans?
- Do we end mandatory liability insurance, and just operate at our own risk?

I would even bet that we could hire five Chinese army divisions for what we are spending for one of ours. Why don't outsource our military, and most of our policemen and firefighters too?

So lets hear it: how many of thes slugs do you really want to go after? National borders no longer matter right?
172 posted on 05/12/2005 12:03:48 PM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: agere_contra

Let me point out a few FACTS you didn't get in your very limited MACRO economics 101.

For example, manufacturing creates about 3.5 jobs for every direct manufacturing job... That means for every 1 guy in the plant turning screws, 3.5 additional jobs are created to support that job... supppliers, service, etc... a SERVICE industry job generates just 1.5 or so Jobs per employee... That means that new call center that's replacing your plant, is only goint to have 1.5 additional job creations per job... Or in essence, just to keep current employment levels, when a manufacturing job is eliminated it takes more than 2 service jobs to replace it.... That's not fairy tale, that's fact.

Manufacturing isn't dead in America, but it sure isn't kicking either. "Free Trade" is not smart trade, and its not conservative in the least. The idea of completely unrestrained markets is also not conservative. Capitalism has shown it is just as capable of devaluing human life as Communism when left unfettered. The triangle fire in New York, Wholescale deaths in the rail yards and mines are all testaments to "completely unfettered markets".

To believe that you as a nation are better off exporting your wealth to third world regimes that will wholesale slaughter political dissenters is a good thing is absolutely rediculous.

Trade should be bilateral agreements between nations, not unanswerable unelectable and unaccountable organizations that trump national sovereignty. If say, a China wishes to sell its goods in the US, then the US or any other Trade partner should be able to say, if you want to play with us, you have to improve your system... If you choose to DUMP steel in the US, the US should say, sorry, no... we're going to tarrif it, or not let it in at all... why should you be allowed to dump below your own cost goods here and cost our economy jobs, just so your national governmetn can subsidize its industries in times of economic hardship instead of actually dealing with the underlying issues?

Free Trade is a scam, it is not remotely based on conservative principles and end game is not a benefit. Free Trade results in REAL WAGE stagnation and collapse, as nations that do not remotely have the same safter, liberty or environmental protections... use fodder labor on barely sustinance wages to produce products for export. A nation that is stuck in the equivalent of the early 1800s (or worse is using political prisoner or child labor) to produce goods to bolster the dictatorial regimes coffers is not remotely "FREE TRADING" with the rest of the world.

Its a scam, its a lie, and its reprehensible. There is absolutely NOTHING conservative ideologically about the "free trade" myth.


185 posted on 05/12/2005 1:15:04 PM PDT by HamiltonJay
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