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This is another good reason to not let United avoid its pension obligations--stop the "domino effect."
1 posted on 05/12/2005 5:31:12 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant

If this comes to the taxpayers, then I want to see it paid for in blood by the industry and union executives who bear responsibility for it. Hanging is appropriate.


2 posted on 05/12/2005 5:32:53 AM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: Brilliant
The ...questions are: Who's next? And ...how much will the taxpayers eventually be forced to ante up?

Here's a better question: Where in the Constitution does it say that the American taxpayer is reponsible for bailing out the pension plan of a for-profit corporation?

3 posted on 05/12/2005 5:40:47 AM PDT by Thermalseeker
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To: Brilliant
" This is another good reason to not let United avoid its pension obligations ... "

Excuse me, but isn't this a done deal? What do you mean "not let"?

Seems to me this is what we get in a federally propped up economy. The airlines cannot be allowed to go under, Amtrack cannot be allowed to go under, GM , etc. etc..

Meanwhile the unions, who aided and abetted in driving the airlines, auto industries, the nations public school system and others, into rot and decay, are now zeroing in on WalMart, and the feds keep printing money and tell us that we are doing swell.

You could take that to the bank, but it won't lower your "interest" rate.

5 posted on 05/12/2005 5:46:54 AM PDT by G.Mason ( Save the Republic from the shallow, demagogic sectarians.)
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To: Brilliant

I would give United thre options.

1. Continue to make your obligations as before and suck it up.

2. Agree to a payment plan where as the government will cobver this for a time but united must pay back with interest the money spent. Similar to the Chysler bail out.

3. Liquidate the company with the pension plan first in line for moneys from the sales.


6 posted on 05/12/2005 5:47:39 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
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To: Brilliant
"This is what happens when Congress puts the taxpayer on the hook as the insurer of last resort."

The current pension underfunding problem and the Social Security problem are the direct result of 40 years of Democrat control of the Congress.

Over that time period, the Democrats were warned that approving judges who did not respect the Constitution was going to expand federal government obligations; diverting SS trust fund money into the general budget was going to create a future IOU deficit; abuse of the "commerce clause" power expanded unconstitutionally Congress' "power" to obligate the taxpayers to bail out a poor business decision; that it was unwise and unconstitutional to grant a special privilege to union's to disrupt a private property owners business with government protection for their decision not to work and thus be replaced, etc.

It was the WWII generation and their children who voted for these members of Congress, Gephardt, Foley, O'Neill, McGovern, Kennedy, Biden, Daschle, Wright, Johnson, Rayburn, Eagleton from 1954 to 1994, who were nothing but selfish, short sighted, socialist/communist and now are "immortalized" with highways, bridges, and federal buildings being named after them.

And now the "true" price has to be paid for the stupidity of the people who voted for that gang of unAmerican, communists.

Economist's such as Milton Friedman and Freidrich Hayek, a former President, Ronald Reagan, and just the plain old history of man, predicted the inevitable "collaspe" of these finacial Ponzi schemes.

11 posted on 05/12/2005 6:00:47 AM PDT by tahiti
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To: Brilliant

GM next year followed closely by Ford.


13 posted on 05/12/2005 6:02:16 AM PDT by Mikey_1962
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To: Brilliant

If we the people bail them out then we the people should
have a say so in the day to day running of the company
we now own...

Not the government or the executives or the stock holders
we the people are the new stock holders in such a case..

We can start by shutting down the EPA...hanging the executives
and the Union reps together..(figuratively if vous prefere)

imo


14 posted on 05/12/2005 6:02:57 AM PDT by joesnuffy (The generation that survived the depression and won WW2 proved poverty does not cause crime)
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To: Brilliant
Is the Auto Industry Next?

No......Delta Airlines is next.

16 posted on 05/12/2005 6:14:29 AM PDT by Texan
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To: Brilliant
If United's default creates a domino effect...

Let the unraveling begin. When Delta and American see this, they're gonna say "Hey, wait a minute! How come they get to ditch their ball and chain - and then come back and tangle with us as if it's a fair fight?! No way! We're going Chapter 11 too. We'll ditch our pensions and come back swinging!"

And how can Uncle Nanny say no? Whether the government gets a clue or not and tries to stop the Imelda Marcos shoe collection from dropping, they'll find a judge who'll rule that it would be patently unfair to hobble the others with their pension obligations. But no problema, our trusty government can always turn around and say "Here camel tax payer - here's another load a' straw."

And then GM, Ford, and Delco will back up to the unloading dock - and the run will be on.

Gosh darn...aren't we blessed with interesting times!

19 posted on 05/12/2005 6:31:19 AM PDT by guitfiddlist (When the 'Rats break out switchblades, it's no time to invoke Robert's Rules.)
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To: Brilliant
This is a no brainer. The company is bankrupt. The pension fund is under funded and broke. The federal insurer is under funded and broke. Regardless of legal moves their are only three options.
1 The company can continue with the bankruptcy and the employees can get in line.
2 The federal insurers can pay at a reduce rate according to the funds they have on hand.
3 The government can increase taxes to fund the federal insurer so they can pay the pensions in full.
Unions have never realized that you can't get money from someone who is broke. In the end if these pensions are fully funded there is only one source of revenue and that is the taxpayer. A bailout by taxpayers will encourage many more in the near future. Union policy and demands have not worked and they should have to live with the results.
22 posted on 05/12/2005 6:42:13 AM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: Brilliant

Wanna bet the executives of United walk away with at least $100 million between them?


23 posted on 05/12/2005 6:43:46 AM PDT by shellshocked (They're undocumented Border Patrol agents, not vigilantes.)
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To: Brilliant

Let the unions pick up the shortfall. It was their greed that is banckrupting these companies pension plans and killing their profits by demanding Cadillac healthcare plans.


35 posted on 05/12/2005 8:54:26 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: Brilliant

New investment strategy: Divest all monies in any company that has to cow to unions.


38 posted on 05/12/2005 9:13:47 AM PDT by VeniVidiVici (In God We Trust. All Others We Monitor.)
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