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Submarine crash could have been avoided
AP (via Contra Costa Times) ^ | 5/7/5 | JAYMES SONG

Posted on 05/07/2005 8:47:40 PM PDT by SmithL

HONOLULU - The crew of an attack submarine that struck an undersea mountain in the Pacific Ocean earlier this year did not adequately review navigation charts that warned of an obstacle in the vessel's path, according to a Navy report released Saturday.

The USS San Francisco was en route to Australia when the accident occurred Jan. 8 about 360 miles southeast of Guam, killing one sailor and injuring 97 others.

Had the submarine's crew "complied with requisite procedures and exercised prudent navigation practices," the grounding could have been avoided, the 124-page report said. "Even if not wholly avoided, however, the grounding would not have been as severe and loss of life may be been prevented."

The submarine hit the mountain while submerged 525 feet below the ocean's surface. The mountain did not appear on the chart being used for navigation.

Other charts, however, clearly displayed "a navigation hazard in the vicinity of the grounding," the report said. The San Francisco's navigation team "failed to review those charts adequately and transfer pertinent data to the chart being used for navigation, as relevant directives and the ship's own procedures required."

Petty Officer 2nd Class Joseph A. Ashley, 24, of Akron, Ohio, suffered severe head injuries in the collision and died the next day.

Ashley's father, Dan, received the report Friday and said he was not surprised with its findings. He expressed concern about the vessel's "sub notes," which are created by senior Navy commanders to chart the vessel's course and sent to crews before they embark on a mission.

Had Navy officials corrected those notes, "the accident would've never happened and my son would still be alive," said Ashley, who served in the Navy for eight years.

The skipper of the submarine, Cmdr. Kevin Mooney, was earlier relieved of his command and reprimanded. Six crew members were also disciplined. The punishment included reduction in rank and punitive letters of reprimand.

Mooney recently met with Ashley's father and together they visited the sailor's grave in West Virginia.

"He took full responsibility, and with tears in eyes, he asked me to forgive him," Ashley said in a telephone interview from Akron. "And I know Joey and him were very close."

The San Francisco sustained severe damage, but returned to its home port of Guam under its own power. It has been undergoing repairs.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: submarine; usn; usssanfrancisco
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1 posted on 05/07/2005 8:47:40 PM PDT by SmithL
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To: Doohickey; judicial meanz; submarinerswife; PogySailor; chasio649; gobucks; Bottom_Gun; Dog Gone; ..

Single Ping


2 posted on 05/07/2005 8:49:42 PM PDT by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
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To: SmithL

The skipper should at least take some flak on this one. Sounds rather a lazy attitude was onboard. They have no excuse for not knowing where they are steering. No debate solicited my eyes are getting bleary, going to bed. nighty nite all.


3 posted on 05/07/2005 8:57:07 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle
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To: SmithL
Mooney recently met with Ashley's father and together they visited the sailor's grave in West Virginia.

"He took full responsibility, and with tears in eyes, he asked me to forgive him," Ashley said in a telephone interview from Akron. "And I know Joey and him were very close."

This is so tough, I think the Navy has some questions to answer. These six sailors are not totally at fault.

4 posted on 05/07/2005 9:02:18 PM PDT by SC Swamp Fox (Aim small, miss small.)
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To: Marine_Uncle

Yeah, well, I think the skipper did take some flak.

I think the loss of the crewmember is worse to him than any sentence handed out.


5 posted on 05/07/2005 9:03:46 PM PDT by rlmorel
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To: Marine_Uncle
One of the later reports chastised the navigation crew because their hard readings did not match the charts.

Therefore, it was inexcusable to proceed at the speed and conditions that they did.

6 posted on 05/07/2005 9:05:36 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: SmithL

Sigh. A good sailor dead and another commander scratched.

The sea is not known for her forgiveness, which is why the Navy isn't, either.


7 posted on 05/07/2005 9:05:51 PM PDT by Majic (Internationalism is just nationalism on a more ambitious scale.)
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To: SmithL; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; mylife

Submarine ping


8 posted on 05/07/2005 9:15:22 PM PDT by StarCMC (Well dang, I wiped out my tagline. Now what?)
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To: SmithL
"The mountain did not appear on the chart being used for navigation. "

I am still confused by this point. Why, again did they have an incorrect chart? And whose fault was that? Why did they apparently have differing charts of the same place?

9 posted on 05/07/2005 9:21:40 PM PDT by de Buillion (God bless John Moses Browning and the NRA)
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To: SmithL
The mountain did not appear on the chart being used for navigation. Other charts, however, clearly displayed "a navigation hazard in the vicinity of the grounding.

I don't understand this statement. In this day of computerized maps, gps, and all the secret stuff that I know nothing about how is it that there are conflicting charts on board a ship? Sounds very strange. Did someone just get the equivalent an old Atlas from the 1980's that doesn't have the latest Interstate info on it? Just weird.
10 posted on 05/07/2005 9:24:12 PM PDT by pepperdog
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To: SmithL

'Mooney recently met with Ashley's father and together they visited the sailor's grave in West Virginia.
"He took full responsibility, and with tears in eyes, he asked me to forgive him," Ashley said in a telephone interview from Akron. "And I know Joey and him were very close." '

That was a really honorable thing to do.


11 posted on 05/07/2005 9:37:21 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: rawhide

Mooney is one of the good guys. One of many good guys that were on the boat when it hit. I'd be proud to serve in his command.


12 posted on 05/07/2005 9:48:46 PM PDT by SmithL (Proud Submariner)
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To: SmithL

Look out Gilligan...that's a mountain ahead!....


13 posted on 05/07/2005 10:03:41 PM PDT by Route101
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To: rawhide
That was a really honorable thing to do.

By both men.

14 posted on 05/07/2005 10:07:33 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Marine_Uncle
The skipper should at least take some flak on this one.

Last I heard, in the US Navy, if your ship hits dirt your command is ended, as well as any chance for promotion. Dead man walking...

15 posted on 05/07/2005 10:12:53 PM PDT by konaice
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To: Majic

Ping!


16 posted on 05/07/2005 10:19:17 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: SmithL; Doohickey
mountain did not appear on the chart being used

Hell's bells, how many charts do you guys have to pick from? We all know the Navy is as unforgiving as the sea but where'd the damn chart come from?

17 posted on 05/07/2005 10:31:32 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: pepperdog
. Did someone just get the equivalent an old Atlas from the 1980's that doesn't have the latest Interstate info on it? Just weird.

I served in Germany in the late 70's.. Our operational maps were generally 20 years old...

I would venture a guess it is much the same in the Navy..
Much money is spent on "Golly-Gee-Whiz" but when it comes to the everyday operational aspects, corners are cut, there is no budget, etc...

Some explanation can be found in the fact that mapping the ocean's floor is a little more complicated than surface topography..
Underwater earthquakes, volcanism, etc.. can cause topographical changes in an area as small as several square miles in an environment that covers 75% of the earth's surface..
That's 3 times as much area to map, and even the best oceanographers often have no idea when or where changes in the seabed topography are being made..

Just my opinion, for what it's worth..

18 posted on 05/07/2005 11:09:23 PM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: pepperdog

-The mountain did not appear on the chart being used for navigation. Other charts, however, clearly displayed "a navigation hazard in the vicinity of the grounding.

I don't understand this statement.-

My guess, as an old navigator, is they used wide area charts to lay out the course and did not use small area charts to check each part of the track. Had they done so, the sea mount would have been obvious. This is just laziness on the part of the Navigator's team, including the Navigator. A look at a wide area chart will show very few hazards and the water depths will look fine.

Think of it as planning a trip from Boston to San Francisco using back roads. You can easily lay out a route with a US map, but individual State maps would be better and county maps would be even better to accurately see the condition of the roads chosen and the small cities and towns on the way.


19 posted on 05/08/2005 4:19:14 AM PDT by KeyWest
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To: KeyWest

It was my understanding, from reading several reports, that the exact opposite was the case. The wide area chart showed some questionable waters, but the localized detail chart showed everything was good to go (i.e. plenty deep w/ no hazards).


20 posted on 05/08/2005 5:43:27 AM PDT by Conservative Infidel (Only thing harder to find in US Senate these days than a Dem w/ a conscience is a Rep w/ a spine.)
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