Posted on 05/07/2005 8:22:50 PM PDT by bgarid
I have no problem with accepting the pictures of Lenin and Stalin as a reality of history, but I have a big problem with accepting Stalin as the big "liberator" of Europe. Fact is, that the brave and strong Russian soldiers defeated Hitler and not their "leader" Stalin. Therefore I do not like showing Stalin in heroic poses today. There could be the false impression, that Stalin himself was the main reason for the collapse of the nazis. The victory over the evil was paid with the dear blood of the common russian people (and the blood of the people of many other nations). They are real heroes, but not this ill natured mass murderer, who dealt in criminal intent with Hitler as it seemed to be unperilous for him.
BTW - I saw in your HP that you are jewish and that you left Russia for Israel 15 years ago. Did you know that Stalin was a declared antisemite? I.e. since WWII being a zionist or a cosmopolite was a common count of indictment in the USSR. Many dissidents paid with long years in Stalins GULAGs or even with their lives for it.
"...Latvia and Estonia have sided with Hitler during WWII.
They were the Bad Guys and they lost..."
They were demoted from independent countries to a part of the USSR during the negotiations of the pact between Hitler and Stalin and its secret additional protocol. Russia occupied both countries in 1939 - 2 years before Hitler declared war on Russia. This was against all international law. Poland was divided into a "Russian" and a "German" part in this sick treaty. Stalins problem was, that Hitler was a crazy moron that gave a sh** on treaties with so called "slavic subhuman beings" (as Hitler saw it) like Stalin. The "Fuehrer" wasn't exactly the guy that stood to a contract in good and bad days. Therefore Russia was -all of a sudden- attacked in 1941.
President Bush got it right: The Russians were (and are) good people, but Stalin was a real evil that played in the same horror league like Hitler did. We all can be more than happy, that things changed for good in Russia, but Russians have to work on the stalinistic past like other nations have to work on dark marks in their past.
"associations of stalinism with Russian" is actually "associations of stalinism with Russians"
I thought long before commenting & have never contributed to any forum before but this situation is unique to me. I am 52 years old and live in the Midwest. I was born outside of Frankfurt, W. Germany to German parents who both had experiences with Soviet military in WW II. My father, from Munchen, at 18 years was conscripted into Heer as panzergrenadier in 8/44 and posted to Poland and Hungary. Was captured by Soviet forces in late 3/45 at Oder River. My mother, a Berliner, was 15 in March 1945 and she and her BDM schoolmates were conscripted to work in the field hospital located in the flaktower at Tiergarten. By April '45 she was manning a AA gun with Volksturm soldiers and HJ. Gun was being used as an artillery piece. They were literally scared to death of what the Russians were going to do to them. Around May 1st she abandoned her post and headed home to her mother and younger sister, Steffanie, 13. They hid until news of the surrender were complete although they say there was still fighting. The initial Soviet troops ransacked their apartment and took whatever valuables they found. A few days later additional Soviet soldiers arrived and proceeded to terrorize what was left of the neighborhood. My mother, grandmother and aunt were repeatedly raped by various soldiers. My aunt Steffanie was taked by 2 Russian soldiers and never seen again. My maternal grandfather was attatched to Paulus's Stalingrad campaign. My grandmother last heard from him 4 months before the surrender at Stalingrad. He was 44 years old. His surviving comrads (very few) say he was alive at capture in January.
My mother and grandmother made it to the Western sector in January '46. My father first met them after being released from Soviet captivity in 1949. He had no teeth and had been badly tortured. They met while civilian employees of the US military in Frankfurt and were married in 7/51. Came to the US in '54. My father died at the young age of 48, primarily due to complications of his Russian imprisonment.
I did not learn of all these things until after my father's death as it was considered both shameful and a source of great anger. My grandmother is still alive in Freiburg and for her, the 60th anniversary of VE day was very painful. I understand and appreciate the suffering inflicted on the Soviets by German forces during the war but Stalin literally made a pact with the devil, used it to his advantage to kill hundreds of thousands and propagandized his soldiers into destroying any Germans they met, even in surrender. There was no honor in that whatsoever. I'm sorry this took so long, probably nobody will read but it means a great deal to me and my family. Im Ruhe. JPS
I thought long before commenting & have never contributed to any forum before but this situation is unique to me. I am 52 years old and live in the Midwest. I was born outside of Frankfurt, W. Germany to German parents who both had experiences with Soviet military in WW II. My father, from Munchen, at 18 years was conscripted into Heer as panzergrenadier in 8/44 and posted to Poland and Hungary. Was captured by Soviet forces in late 3/45 at Oder River. My mother, a Berliner, was 15 in March 1945 and she and her BDM schoolmates were conscripted to work in the field hospital located in the flaktower at Tiergarten. By April '45 she was manning a AA gun with Volksturm soldiers and HJ. Gun was being used as an artillery piece. They were literally scared to death of what the Russians were going to do to them. Around May 1st she abandoned her post and headed home to her mother and younger sister, Steffanie, 13. They hid until news of the surrender were complete although they say there was still fighting. The initial Soviet troops ransacked their apartment and took whatever valuables they found. A few days later additional Soviet soldiers arrived and proceeded to terrorize what was left of the neighborhood. My mother, grandmother and aunt were repeatedly raped by various soldiers. My aunt Steffanie was taked by 2 Russian soldiers and never seen again. My maternal grandfather was attatched to Paulus's Stalingrad campaign. My grandmother last heard from him 4 months before the surrender at Stalingrad. He was 44 years old. His surviving comrads (very few) say he was alive at capture in January.
My mother and grandmother made it to the Western sector in January '46. My father first met them after being released from Soviet captivity in 1949. He had no teeth and had been badly tortured. They met while civilian employees of the US military in Frankfurt and were married in 7/51. Came to the US in '54. My father died at the young age of 48, primarily due to complications of his Russian imprisonment.
I did not learn of all these things until after my father's death as it was considered both shameful and a source of great anger. My grandmother is still alive in Freiburg and for her, the 60th anniversary of VE day was very painful. I understand and appreciate the suffering inflicted on the Soviets by German forces during the war but Stalin literally made a pact with the devil, used it to his advantage to kill hundreds of thousands and propagandized his soldiers into destroying any Germans they met, even in surrender. There was no honor in that whatsoever. I'm sorry this took so long, probably nobody will read but it means a great deal to me and my family. Im Ruhe. JPS
What was done to germany...well, it was not nice.
I got busted once (reduced in rank), for asking, what happens when the next german generation is not sorry?
wow. outstanding post. I like the pic w the captured german standards.
Although my name really is "Patton." LOL
That sailor (second from left in the group shot) looks like Sylvester Stallone.
As a WW2 vet I am pleased to see the faces of those military who served 'their country' and did much to destroy the evils of the Nazi regime.--many of us who served are gone and the perils of those days were kept from this generation by such men and women, regardless of country--forget about the nature of their government and just remember how much the people sacrificed--look at the faces and see the faces of sons and daughters so very much like our own--God Bless all who serve their country in times of great peril--there but for the Grace of God go any one of us and be thankful this Nation has been so blessed! (FREE REPUBLIC is just the spot to such moving pictures of history)
As a WW2 vet I am pleased to see the faces of those military who served 'their country' and did much to destroy the evils of the Nazi regime.--many of us who served are gone and the perils of those days were kept from this generation by such men and women, regardless of country--forget about the nature of their government and just remember how much the people sacrificed--look at the faces and see the faces of sons and daughters so very much like our own--God Bless all who serve their country in times of great peril--there but for the Grace of God go any one of us and be thankful this Nation has been so blessed! (FREE REPUBLIC is just the spot to such moving pictures of history)
The Ukranians also got on board with thee Nazis and had troops in the German army. They were also noted as the worst of the murderous guards at German concentration camps. Also helping the Germans were divisions from Croatia...you know, the Muslims that Clinton "saved" from the Christian Serbs. Go figure!
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